LF Chocolate Orpingtons

[lildinkem]

Quote:
So that black split male bred to a black female in the US would result in 25% chocolate females.
Choc females bred back to the black split male would result in everyone having the choc gene and 25% choc males and 25% choc females
So by 2nd gen you have full choc males and full choc females
Assuming you used good stock in your black females in the first gen, you are there in color in 2nd gen and have a decent start on conformation since you didn't have to cross another breed in to get the color.
So why do folks say it is so hard to get the cross over to LF? What am I missing, why do you think it will take 10 years?

That is what I would think. But, it has been 15 years since Clive cut loose the gene to his buddies and only one breeder is saying they have the gene in LF. And that is a UK bird. So, even if you get the size up you still have to Americanize or get the bird to meet an APA standard to really make it happen here. That is what is holding down the dollars now with the Lavs. Not too many Lavs would pass an APA judges inspection and win anything. It takes time and dedication and a plan. Many are torn between the UK look and the APA look. And you have to pick one or the other. It is impossible for the same bird to be successful in both worlds. I guess you are an American. I am and I want an APA style Choc Orp the most. I think the gene is buried in the deep recesses of some of our birds here. I have a cockerel who is from my same breeding as my most Orpy looking birds. Not a purebred. But, by him existing proves these genes are there. They can pop out anytime IF the proper triggers have been pulled.
Here is Road Runner. a 4 to 5 month ole. The bird who is his daddy is my 3/4's Orp 1/8 Australorp 1/? Ameraucana and who knows. This bird to me looks like a Modern Game. Now IF the genetics of him are in my BUS, MAYBE a Choc gene is locked in there too. After all you have to use a Black to get the Black to dilute into a Brown. BUS's daddy is an all Black boy.
So if this guy can be pulled out, who knows? Worth the messin around with the way I see it.

Here is a BUSTOFF pic taken 2 days ago. One of my best BYC friends, who is a color breeder of many different UK Orp colors thinks BUS has Silver. He knows more then me. I am suppose to take BUS to a Lav sometime down the road. Like this fall.

 

[ChooksChick]

Quote:
So that black split male bred to a black female in the US would result in 25% chocolate females.
Choc females bred back to the black split male would result in everyone having the choc gene and 25% choc males and 25% choc females
So by 2nd gen you have full choc males and full choc females
Assuming you used good stock in your black females in the first gen, you are there in color in 2nd gen and have a decent start on conformation since you didn't have to cross another breed in to get the color.
So why do folks say it is so hard to get the cross over to LF? What am I missing, why do you think it will take 10 years?

My guess at the reason it's difficult at this point is that the only folks working on it in the US are trying to isolate the gene from Seramas. That's going to screw up conformation in attempts at LF for some time. There's no certainty that there was anything imported just yet, and thus the game is all mad science still until it's isolated in something that even vaguely looks like an Orp. Going from Serama to banty Orp is still a stretch, but not as great as going to a LF Orp.

What I'm wondering is whether anyone is finding the gene in anything other than the Seramas yet for CERTAIN? On this continent, that is.

 

[mediazeal]

Quote:
So that black split male bred to a black female in the US would result in 25% chocolate females.
Choc females bred back to the black split male would result in everyone having the choc gene and 25% choc males and 25% choc females
So by 2nd gen you have full choc males and full choc females
Assuming you used good stock in your black females in the first gen, you are there in color in 2nd gen and have a decent start on conformation since you didn't have to cross another breed in to get the color.
So why do folks say it is so hard to get the cross over to LF? What am I missing, why do you think it will take 10 years?

My guess at the reason it's difficult at this point is that the only folks working on it in the US are trying to isolate the gene from Seramas. That's going to screw up conformation in attempts at LF for some time. There's no certainty that there was anything imported just yet, and thus the game is all mad science still until it's isolated in something that even vaguely looks like an Orp. Going from Serama to banty Orp is still a stretch, but not as great as going to a LF Orp.

What I'm wondering is whether anyone is finding the gene in anything other than the Seramas yet for CERTAIN? On this continent, that is.

Well, we know the choc orp bantams are here at both Greenfire farms and someone else said they had imported them. I've heard that twice now, not sure if the importer besides greenfire was 2 sources or the same person.
No one is ready to sell anything yet. But I'm assuming since Greenfire is advertising, they will start selling next year sometime in limited, expensive batches.

If we have to start with bantam here, it will take more gens to get to a good LF standard. If we can start with an imported LF, seems like we are just breeding to our own (USA) standard with excellent LF black stock crossed in. LF COP (Chocolate Orp Project) birds could be happening in a year or two instead of 10. Seems to me.
I might be just a little too excited though.

I have Lavenders and LOVE them. I had not had orps before. Love the productivity, temperment, and they are so darn pretty!

 

[ChooksChick]

See, that's what I wonder- the Greenfire site says they've located stock and are working to get it imported. I haven't actually seen any confirmation the birds are here yet. Rumors can amp things up and I wonder if it's rumor or fact that they're actually in the States.

 

[mediazeal]

Quote:
I understand. Until we see the birds for sale here we will not have proof of course.
I have seen 2 posts here by individuals saying they had imported or were in the process of importing.
One says they are now here and he is working on hatch out more, etc.
No one is showing pics or selling.
I figure we will see some choc orp bantams for sale next season in the States.

 

[lildinkem]

The trait is definitely a mutation. Mutations seem to occur on their own all the time. IF it was made by a back woods Aussie farmer and Clive had to buy them, makes me think there is a great possibility of that same screw up being duplicated. Remember that Aussie farmer had no clue what he made. Prolly still doesn't know. Think how many farmers don't have computers. Millions? In the whole world. You can bet there are more. And this gene when put in near identical breeding program can occur again.

 

[mediazeal]

This is the source for LF in the UK that is advertising on the web so far
http://www.ramsleyorpingtons.com/

 

[lildinkem]

Quote:
That is it. No one else has them. And who knows how much and the hoops to jump to just get a few birds. Then you still will have traits that need work. Asides from making them acceptable to the APA. Unless I get lucky there are always others who will try to get them in. And prolly only be banties. Another 10 years and you can get them here for a fair price.

 

[V Comb]

An where is this farmer located in Australia? I'd like to get in contact with him...

 

[lildinkem]

Quote:
lololol Clive never revealed to anyone who would say whom he got his flock from. I think he just came upon this farmer flock and approached him and got some birds from him. Wouldn't you have liked to be a fly on the post listening in on that deal gettin cut?