LGD puppy-4 mo old-Help!

[Little Farm Girl]

Our LGD puppy is in or garden, which has a 6 ft chainlink fence around it, and nothing growing in it, and it has a nice size shed in it for Sheera(the lgd). The chickens pen runs all the way around the garden, and the have their barn too...we let Sheera out to mingle with the chickens while we are outside. We went on a one day trip Sat, came back, a chicken had flown into the pen, and she ATE its back side, and neck out(it’s dead). We have a shock collar on her, so when we have a couple minutes, we let her out to be with the chickens, go inside, watch through the window, and make sure she is good while we “aren’t watching”. Then we put her back in her pen(the garden), and she has tons of toys, interactive toys, toys tied to the fence, etc. She is 4 1/2 months old.

She is great at doing perimeter checks, barking at bad things, everything like that...but she just doesn’t like the duck hens, and our smaller hens. Would it help her if we got her an animal to bond with that would help keep her distracted? Like a doe, or kid, or lamb, or puppy, or anything? Just to keep her occupied during the day?

 

[sourland]

She's just a pup, and her desire to 'play' is far stronger than her desire to protect. It takes time before even a LGD can be trusted with poultry. It actually sounds as if she is progressing normally.

 

[21hens-incharge]

Do you spend time out there with her....training her?

I agree she is very much a puppy.

No way could my 17 week old bloodhound go tracking....she has the tools just not the maturity and training.

 

[aart]

She is 4 1/2 months old.

Just a baby!
Can take up to 2 years for dogs to be fully trained and trustworthy.
What breed of dog is she?

 

[jolenesdad]

I’ve read a lot about tethering LGDs at her age to YOU for 90 days. Just about all day, every day, whenever you are home and doing anything. In and out of the house.

Full disclosure I do not have one yet, but I’m on a waiting list for a litter of Karakachans this spring. Yay! I’ve been researching for a couple of years.

a huge part of the instinctual part of an LGD being an LGD is the relationship of the dog and their shepherd (you!). If left to her own decisions, it will take quite some time for her to realize what is her stock to protect. If you keep her with you for all of your tasks and time l, she will learn exponentially faster what is important to you and what she should protect.....

 

[BirdsBeesTrees]

I have a Great Pyrenees puppy who is now just shy of 1 year old. She was fine when we were around but if we were out of her sight she'd kill the birds. She killed 4-5 chickens and tried to get 2 ducks but we caught her. She spent a lot of time on the tie out as a doggiesitter and I spent a lot of time yelling "protect the birds, don't eat my birds!" Now that she's older she is doing so much better and is no longer on a tie out of any kind.

I took this picture of her in July right before she killed 4 of my chickens by drowning them in her doggie pool.

 

[aart]

I’ve read a lot about tethering LGDs at her age to YOU for 90 days. Just about all day, every day, whenever you are home and doing anything. In and out of the house.

Huh...Have read about that for pet dogs, but not LDG's
Hope you start a thread about your Karakachan(jeallly!!) when you get it.

 

[sunrise.superman]

LGD pups need supervision with any livestock as pups...goats, sheep, whatever as they'll rough house and play the young to death or harrassthe adults. With birds, even adults need supervision at first if they've not been trained on birds. As was mentioned, tether her to YOU so you can supervise and guide her...not just staked out or penned on her own. That teaches her nothing. Most LGD breeds are not even close to becoming reliable guards until after 1 year old, most hit their stride close to 2 years. If you're considering having more than one I'd suggest looking into a rescue group or breeder that has a mature, experienced LGD and may be able and willing to offer training guidance to you for the pup. They learn amazingly well from each other. Mine were adults when I had chickens and small foundling kitten added to my property and I made a point to show them the new members of the farm up close and supervise them at first. Mine were good on goats and sheep, but they needed introduction to smaller critters.

 

[jolenesdad]

Huh...Have read about that for pet dogs, but not LDG's
Hope you start a thread about your Karakachan(jeallly!!) when you get it.

I am a pretty big dog person and i couldn't really understand how I would have a purely outside-only dog, so I have really poured myself into research to understand LGDs in general and how it could work for my family and my setup. Just kind of trying to understand them better so I could get right in my head about it before jumping in to the fray. I also was sort of confused what an LGD would do at night, because my birds are kept 100% secure in a barn setup. Would they be bored? Would they need companionship? If I raised them with my dogs inside would they then be confused?

I asked in multiple forums and FB groups about an indoor/outdoor dog, one that could have access to regular family life and also LGD duties. Maybe sleep on the porch as opposed to out with stock that I don't have, etc. It seemed to me there needed to be additional training involved with LGDs to ensure they would be great with my house dogs, toddler, visitors to the farm, etc...

Was ridiculed in a lot of places, and then found a more traditional style of working with LGDs. It's also supposed to be pretty successful earlier with poultry.... Some LGDs grow into their role pretty well without much help, but, the "Set them out with the stock" plan also leads to a lot of LGD failures, or, not the most safe LGDs to regular life. If I am going to have an LGD, I want an LGD that has NO problem hopping in the car to go to the vet with me. LGDs stuck in a pen with stock from puppy stages are incredibly hard to control or take off the farm.

The basis of the traditional LGD training is shepherd-based. Bond the dog to you first and foremost, then, once they understand that you are the shepherd, they start to guard and protect what's important to YOU.

If OP is on FB and interested in human tethering, check out Farei Kennels Training and Education group. Be warned, it's a bit of an intense group of folks, but, the information is incredible in the files section. It's the most cohesive area of information for these methods....

 

[Little Farm Girl]

Got it, yes we spend a lot of time training her and being with her. As for tethering her to us, she lives outside 24/7 with a good shed to go in for protection, and when she is with the chickens rolls in poop. We’ve read about not petting them or loving on them to much, as they might not want to go back outside. We wouldn’t be able to bring her inside with us...but maybe we can start tethering her to us to do the other farm chores.


We know she is a puppy, won’t be able to be trusted till she is older, all of that kind of thing, but we are just wandering if she gets bored, and that’s why she kills the chickens. That’s where the original question came from, Should we get her an adult goat, or some kind of animal to befriend, and bond with so she isn’t so bored everyday when we aren’t with her.
All the LGD’s we’ve seen at farms follow the herd of whatever around wherever the herd goes, and that gives them something to do everyday. We’ve even seen younger LGDs doing that, so we are wandering if it would help to get her something to follow, and look after to keep her occupied...since the chickens will never be walking around a pasture needing followed by an LGD like sheep and goat herds do.