Likely Marek's flock - a few living-with-it questions

[cityeggs]

Preliminary necropsy results point to Marek's for my hen that just died. I'm trying to process how we proceed in the event that the other possibilities are ruled out (or we are stuck with a likely Marek's but no definitive diagnosis). A few issues I'm currently mulling over:

1. Who chicken sits for my flock?

2. What to do with my cockerel?

3. Socializing with friends who also keep chickens - precautions for visits?

4. The future of the flock...

I've read through the BYC Big Marek's article and I feel like I have ideas on what to do but in the event that there's some solution I haven't thought of, I'm putting my questions out there. And there's a little processing the loss of ease/innocence in there too.

1. What do you do about chicken sitting? In the past, we've just had two neighbors who both have flocks take care of them (we swap). I have always been *somewhat* careful with biosecurity - changing clothes and shoes and washing hands between their flocks and ours, but I didn't require the same of them bc I felt a little neurotic, since they didn't seem concerned and have been doing this for much longer than I have. It's *possible* that one neighbor is where we got it (they also had a hen die of neurological issues in the last year), but it would suggest a long incubation time and there's always the feed store. local children's farm visit, or wild birds that could've been the source. Do I just try to find someone else who likes chickens and is willing to watch them but doesn't have them - and doesn't want them any time soon? We don't go away that often, but we do visit family for 2 weeks in the summer. It was just so easy with chicken neighbors to swap care and that convenience is hard to lose.

2. Current cockerel - It seems like my only choice is euthanizing my cockerel soon, since I'm not legally allowed to keep him. Am I missing some magical option whereby I make it abundantly clear that he comes from a Marek's flock, do a PCR test to see if he's a carrier and still manage to find someone who would want him, even when no one wanted my perfectly healthy cockerels in the past? This still feels questionable (and unlikely) to me. He's a lovely lavender Ameraucana x Brahma (as far as I can tell) and I was really hoping that he'd be able to find a happy home, given his genetic potential for remaining a docile guy and his good looks.

3. What do you do about visiting with friends who also have chickens?? Aside from letting everyone know that our flock is positive and providing virucidal spray for shoes, and educating them on additional precautions (showering, changing clothes) and letting them decide what to do - is there anything I'm missing? My brother- and sister-in-law have chickens and they periodically come to stay with us for a few days and vice versa. We also have other friends with backyard flocks and like to have people over to hang out in our backyard.

4. I'm still educating myself on this - in terms of the future of our flock, are our options:

a. cull entire flock THEN clean as thoroughly as possible, wait 6mo-1.5 years, "start over" with vaccinated chicks and hope for the best (not my plan)

b. wait until current flock lives as long as they can, then the rest of plan a (probably my approach)

c. add vaccinated chicks some time after no further deaths/symptoms and hope for the best? (not likely for me)

d. PCR tests of the flock - Have people done this approach, and what did you do? Periodic PCR tests - if so, when? Was/is there a point at which everyone tests negative? And if so, then what did you do?

We currently have 2 hens who are 1.5, who were hatchery vaccinated, and 4x 3-month-old chicks (1 cockerel, 3 pullets), one of which was hatchery vaccinated (so likely within 36h of hatch?), and 3 who were feed store vaccinated at 4 days old (I watched, I know exactly when it was done), so, according to the big BYC Marek's article, can't be considered properly vaccinated but it seems to be better than not being vaccinated at all.

 

[nikkers390]

You obviously have given this much thought. My opinion is, and this is ONLY MY opinion, you cannot protect your chickens from every pathogen. You can vaccinate, have strict biosecurity and impeccable coop hygiene but unless your chickens live in a sterile, controlled environment and NEVER step outdoors, they will still be exposed to pathogens of some type or other. Wild birds, wind, rodents, insects can all spread pathogens. The only thing I take special measures for is coccidiosis, which can be a killer. Medicated feed till they are 12 weeks or so. I keep corid handy if needed.

The best way to minimize disease, I find, is to keep young birds dry, do what you can to minimize stress, feed them immunity boosting foods and herbs and, most importantly, KEEP A CLOSED FLOCK. No started birds from anywhere, day old chicks are OK since they are in a brooder for a while anyway. Intoduce new babies to a bit of soil from your yard to kick start the immunity process. Re homing chickens is OK but do NOT bringing anything in. I do not vaccinate but my flock has access to the outdoors, they free range when the weather allows, they get access to bugs, frogs, small reptiles and rodents, seeds and grasses. I do what I can to boost their natural immunity. Yes, some birds will get sick, a few will die, that is just life, but the majority are strong and vibrant. That strong immunity is passed on to their chicks. I tend to let broodies raise their own babies.
Others may disagree, but this works for me. I lose very few chickens to illness.

 

[coach723]

Marek's is a lot different to manage than most other illnesses. Yes, have a closed flock. I only bring in chicks, no older birds. Vaccinated or not vaccinated is a personal decision, there are valid reasons for both. Just understand that the vaccine does not prevent them from contracting Marek's disease, it only prevents the formation of the tumors associated with it, so mortality is much reduced. Vaccinated birds can still get it, and can still spread it, all while remaining unsymptomatic. Nothing should leave unless you are very clear with whomever wants them, about Marek's. Someone with a Marek's positive flock might be interested in your roo. An exposed but unsymptomatic bird may be something that someone who is dealing with Marek's might want for breeding purposes, it just depends. Many of us that have Marek's flocks are working on breeding for resistance, so that means we only hatch from our non symptomatic birds in the hopes for more resistant birds. Or we purchase breeds that are known to be more resistant, also to hopefully build a healthier flock. The virus can travel 3 miles on the wind, so neighbors birds may already be exposed. I wouldn't PCR test my whole flock. If you've lost a bird to confirmed Marek's then your flock is exposed and you just have to assume they are all exposed. Doesn't mean they will all get sick or have symptoms or die of it, but your losses will be above average. Different strains are also of different virulence, so that can make a difference in mortality also. Many find that initial losses are high, and that it settles down after that with the survivors, and losses after that initial period may be more sporadic. There really isn't one answer for everyone, it depends on the strain, what you are or are not willing to deal with, what your needs and expectations of keeping chickens are and if you can make it work. The virus can be cleaned off surfaces, but it can survive in the environment for a very, very long time. I'm not sure at what point, if ever, I'd really feel safe that it was truly gone. I just don't know. If I went a long period of time without losing a bird that could even possibly be suspected of Marek's, maybe I would feel relieved. But I would probably always disclose it, that it had been here, we just hadn't seen any for a long time.

 

[cityeggs]

Thank you both for your thoughts. It is so helpful to hear how others approach similar circumstances.

My one thought on PCR testing at this point is that the Marek's diagnosis was by default - what was left after ruling out a bunch of the other possibilities. I guess I like certainty and there's a small part of me that holds out some hope, however small, that it was something else that the lab didn't test for.

I really hope someone with a Marek's flock would take my roo - I need to post an ad just in case, but haven't been able to bring myself to yet for some reason.