Looking for gentle, attractive, prolific brown or easter egg layers

[3riverschick]

Columbian breed I know of are the Light Sussex, Columbian Marans, and Japanese Bantam.
Best,
Karen

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nicalandia wrote :

you can add Delawares, Columbian Rocks
====================
Yes, except they are eb based. I was just quoting eWh based Columbian breeds.
Best,

Karen
=====================

nicalandia wrote:
Delawares and Columbian Rocks are not eb, they are wheaten


Light Sussex, Delawares and Columbian Rocks all hatch out yellow, you would have a Terrible time telling the difference between them if you didnt own one previously as they would look like a yellow puff of love...LOL
===========================
Karen wrote:
Delaware:
Originally Posted by kathyinmo
SO, removing all the, "nots," ... we are left with this. Is this correct?
Female
E^wh/E^wh--wheaten
CoCo--columbian
ChaCha--charcoal
S--silver
B cuckoo--barred
I still don't get the, "Columbian," thing though.
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Henk69 writes:
charcoal in the calculator is recessive. Since the original list did not use the + signs...
Don't know if charcoal is in there, could be, but not the most important.
Delawares are
silver in groundcolor
columbian restricted
sexlinked-barred/cuckoo
on a permissive "extension" background like wheaten or e^b (brown/partridge)
"Dark brown"-gene would clear the hackles of the black/barring pattern.
Charcoal would boost it.
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Henk69 writes:
Yes, delawares are barred columbians. The barring should also be on the silver background, but is hard to see
---------------------------
Personally, I think the way to distinguish which locus one's Delawares are is if the underfluff needs color balancing to obtain correct top color, it is eb. If it doesn't, it is eWh.
Karen
===============
Columbian Plymouth Rock:
http://bloslspoutlryfarm.tripod.com/id51.html
Either they don't carry Silver or they are eb based. That accounts for the colored underfluff instead of "white to the skin" as in eWh S/S based birds.
Best,
Karen

 

[nicalandia]

Delaware:
Originally Posted by kathyinmo
SO, removing all the, "nots," ... we are left with this. Is this correct?
Female
E^wh/E^wh--wheaten
CoCo--columbian
ChaCha--charcoal
S--silver
B cuckoo--barred
I still don't get the, "Columbian," thing though.
------------------------------
Henk69 writes:
charcoal in the calculator is recessive. Since the original list did not use the + signs...
Don't know if charcoal is in there, could be, but not the most important.
Delawares are
silver in groundcolor
columbian restricted
sexlinked-barred/cuckoo
on a permissive "extension" background like wheaten or e^b (brown/partridge)
"Dark brown"-gene would clear the hackles of the black/barring pattern.
Charcoal would boost it.
---------------------------
Henk69 writes:
Yes, delawares are barred columbians. The barring should also be on the silver background, but is hard to see
---------------------------
Personally, I think the way to distinguish which locus one's Delawares are is if the underfluff needs color balancing to obtain correct top color, it is eb. If it doesn't, it is eWh.
Karen
===============
Columbian Plymouth Rock:
http://bloslspoutlryfarm.tripod.com/id51.html
Either they don't carry Silver or they are eb based. That accounts for the colored underfluff instead of "white to the skin" as in eWh S/S based birds.
Best,
Karen

I was partially off with the Columbian Rocks, yes some are eWh wheaten but the SOP calls for a eb bird going by the underfluff....



BUT.. Delawares are 100% wheaten, where did they get their wheaten e allele from? from their New Hampshire line of parents when they where created, remember that they were created by using barred rock and new hampshire... Barred rocks are Extended black and New Hampshires are Wheaten based... no other breed was introduce besides these..


and also remember that Sex linked barring affects eb chicks, both males and Females will have a Headspot but male´s headspot is Way larger and extends to the back on homozygous barring... Barring has no effect on Wheaten, the chicks remain solid yellow as delaware do


now if you still believe Delawares are eb no mattar what. then you need to provide genetic proof of it, I mean I have already presented history proof(Delaware sires) and genetic proof as how does eb interacts with sex linked barring

 

[nicalandia]

Let me pick this Post appart..

Delaware:
Originally Posted by kathyinmo
SO, removing all the, "nots," ... we are left with this. Is this correct?
Female
E^wh/E^wh--wheaten
CoCo--columbian
ChaCha--charcoal
S--silver
B cuckoo--barred
I still don't get the, "Columbian," thing though.
------------------------------

so far he got this genetic make up right.. except for charcoal, no charcoal is found on them, charcoal would make their phenotype look like the Lakenvelder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakenvelder_(chicken)

------------------------------
Henk69 writes:
"Dark brown"-gene would clear the hackles of the black/barring pattern.
Charcoal would boost it.
---------------------------

Henk69 is Way off here, there is not "Dark Brown" gene on Delawares, Db(Dark Brown) is a columbian like restrictor, but its not Columbian, they are not one and the same..

---------------------------
Henk69 writes:
Yes, delawares are barred columbians. The barring should also be on the silver background, but is hard to see
---------------------------

henk is off here too, while the Barring gene does affect both Eumelanin(black feathers) and Pheomelanin(gold/silver feathers) its IMPOSSIBLE
to see, not just Hard to see, but IMPOSSIBLE,....Why? there is nothing left for the sexlinked gene to generate a pattern as Columbian will push all of the black feathers to the ends of the Bird(tail, flying feathers, Hackles, saddle)


Henk is my friend and I invite him to contribute to this debate but he is out of the loop on the Delaware genetic history



Here a Brief History on how the Delaware came to be....source http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGD/Dels/Hoffmann.html

Prologue: In those days the popular broiler cross was Barred Plymouth Rock x New Hampshire. If the barred broiler males were inadvertently mated with New Hampshires the progeny would be heterozygous for dominant black extension. A heterozygous male mated to a New Hampshire might be the progenitor of the silver (but barred) sports we occasionally saw. George (Ellis) found one outstanding male that he called Superman and we mated him to a lot of New Hampshires to found what eventually became the Delaware breed. All the other sports were inferior. Of course the sports had to be silver or we would have had a barred red. In those days no one knew anything about the inheritance of Colombian but in hindsight 2 crosses to New Hampshire might give a few homozygous Colombian (CoCo) individuals

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

We started out with RIR. Prolific, big beautiful eggs. But absolutely savage to each other, and didn't really lay for more than 2 seasons. We got some buff orpingtons. Beautiful, gentle, but rubbish egg layers. Sporadic layers with small eggs.

I'm thinking of Buff Americaunas, or perhaps getting a RIR rooster to mate with my buffs, but with my luck I'd end up with savage chickens that were also rubbish layers.

My wife loves the buffs, so I'm trying to find something that looks as pretty but are better egg layers.

I don't really know a source of buff americaunas.

Why not go off the deep end and enjoy all 3? The beautiful Langshan sounds like exactly what you need! Prolific layers (have them still laying even in -2* weather) as well as beautiful with their beetle green sheen, large bodies and available in 3 colors: Black, blue and white. Often go broody, but most of all gentle. It's the only breed that I can put in different aged chicks and expect to not have any losses. Love them!

 

[3riverschick]

According to the color calculator (developed by Henk69)....http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html, the genetics of columbian is

Male
ebeb CoCo db+db+ pg+pg+ ml+ml+ Cha+Cha+ mh+mh+ di+di+ Ig+Ig+ cb+cb+ i+i+ bl+bl+ Lav+Lav+ C+C+ Mo+Mo+ b+b+ SS Choc+Choc+

Female
ebeb CoCo db+db+ pg+pg+ ml+ml+ Cha+Cha+ mh+mh+ di+di+ Ig+Ig+ cb+cb+ i+i+ bl+bl+ Lav+Lav+ C+C+ Mo+Mo+ b+- S- Choc+-
====================
Yes, I see the history, but that doesn't always mean they are that now. In Light Sussex the foundation breeds for the variety were eb, eb, and Wh , respectively. Thru dealing with the brassiness and unwanted black speckling in the white top color, the breeders moved the variety from eb to pure eWh locus. If the Delaware has anything other than white undercolor clear to the skin, it is eb.
Best,
Karen

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
Henks calculator is only providing you with the most or at least the most popular of genetic make up for the Columbian genotype...BUT that does not mean you cant create a columbian phenotype(outer looks) with wheaten or wildtype, yes you can have columbian based birds with wildtype(Old English Game Bantams http://oegclub.com/forum/11-varieties/52-columbian-old-english?limit=10&start=30 ) but lets no focus on the phenotype of a adult bird, lets look at its chick down phenotype instead... Columbian eb chicks look different from columbian Wildtype chicks, and Wheaten Columbian chicks look different from eb or e+ chicks... wheaten Columbian chicks look solid yellow(like if they were dominant white, example white leghorns, except they show black feathers) example Delawares eb Columbian chicks look like your very own Columbian Rock chicks(your chicks) example Columbian Wyandottes wildtype Columbian Chicks have Chipmunk stripes, example Rhodebar/Hambars, these birds are gold columbian wildtype ofcourse(with barring for autosexing)

 

[3riverschick]

"If the Delaware has anything other than white undercolor clear to the skin, it is eb."
amended to:
If the Delaware has anything other than white undercolor clear to the skin, it is not eWh.
Best,
Karen