Loose stool/some respiratory issues!

[rkhyland]

We have had a rought Spring/Summer, cold, wet, suddenly hot, back to cold, more wet... It's been a bad year to raise chicks! Newest thing, loose, off colored stools and some sneezing/discharge. Some slowly go downhill, get dumpy and listless and die, some are just suddenly dead. Wondering about a general antibiotic I could run in the water and also maybe deworming? Any advice appreciated! Have a call in to a vet too, thought I would also check in here.

 

[pipermark]

vinegar, apple cider in water - helps with cutting the mucus.

pedolyte - get electrolytes back into them lost from runny stools. (assuming no blood in stools correct?)

You can add an antibiotic to their water or see if you can find some Game bird feed (medicated) , this is usually a high protein feed (20%) that contains antibiotics.

If the you only take one of my suggestions please do the apple cider vinegar, they dont stand a chance if they cant get o2, and mucous in the lungs really prevents this.

Couple of teaspoons to a gallon waterer is enough.

 

[threehorses]

Gamebird feeds don't contain enough antibiotics to treat a respiratory illness. That's not their design.

If you treat, treat with a good antibiotic at full strength (not prevention strength as foods are) for a full 7 days or depending on the number of days recommended by the package.

I would give PRObiotics to the bird to counteract the diarrhea by adding more living beneficial bacteria to their gut. You should do this now, and MUST do that if you medicate and for 2 weeks after medicating. More on probiotics later.

I do also recommend the organic (only ) apple cider vinegar in the water at a rate of 1 teaspoon per gallon of water. It not only does decrease the mucus in the throat, but also corrects the pH of the gut again and adds yet more living beneficial bacteria which act against diarrhea. I say organic, not because of the philosophy of organics, but because the other doesn't contain the nutrients or living bacteria. Health food sections of major grocery stores often sell this. The gunk in the bottom is the "mother" and is the best part of the vinegar.

Antibiotics: If you can get your vet to do a "culture and sensitivity" on your babies, just a swab from one's throat and sinuses, that's the best way. It will cost you a lot more than experimenting on medications and lost birds. It will also tell you if your birds will be carriers when they survive. Or whether the problem is bacteria rather than fungal (aspergillosis is common in those environmental conditions you've described).

However, if you can't do that, I would recommend you use a good antibiotic. Don't take the advice of the feedstore guy who will send you home with a package of yellow antibiotics. Look more towards Tylan, LS50. If the birds have a fetid, nasty smell to their sinuses, consider Sulmet for coryza. Sulmet also treats for coccidiosis if any of the droppings were at all bloody, mucousy, or orange (other than cecal droppings). Some antibiotics treat some respiratory illnesses, others treat others.

Really we do need more information to help get an idea of the bacteria - are their eyes bubbly? Any nasty smell to their drainage? Any slinging of bloody stuff from their throates? Any chest gurgles, swollen faces? Any crustiness?

By the way, all stressed or ill birds should receive additional nutrition and vitamins and probiotics during their bad period. Probiotics can be plain yogurt (unless you use a medication that contains a -mycin or -cycline as the active ingredient - read the label), acidophilus capsules from the grocer/pharmacy vitamin section, or a prepared livestock probiotic like Probios powder (lasts forever, easy to use, CAN be used during medication - highly recommmend - $8 bottle lasts ages in the fridge - see the cattle section of your feedstore or call around, or shop at TSC).

I recommend vitamins given directly by mouth in a quickly eaten feed. They don't degrade as much as they do in water, and in your case you're likely to give antibiotics in the water so you cannot give vitamins in the water. Try either giving Calf Manna as per the label for poultry (they love it - it's a red nice smelling pellet), or ground up and mixed with a damp mash wetted with water and the probiotics mixed in. You could also give Enfamil baby vitamins to individual birds. It would be too hard to mix that vitamin into a bulk damp mash.

For respiratory illness, you can boil and mash a couple of eggs and mix that, crumbles, the calf manna, probiotics and some water into a damp mash. Take their feed up last thing at night - give this damp mash first thing in the morning. They'll eat it all - make sure each bird gets a good deal of it. Make it damp to where it will ball when you clutch it into one hand, but will fall apart if you drop it into a plate. You can always add water, but can't always take it away. Let it sit 5 minutes before serving so it soaks in better. Do that daily every day of medication (replace yogurt with probios or the contents of several acidophilis capsules if medicating with mycin/cyclines) and then every other day or so for the two weeks after their last day of medication.

Do not stop the antibiotics - even if symptoms cease - until the dosage time period is met (usually 7 days). If you do, only do it to change to a more appropriate antibiotic if after 3 days the symptoms don't at all improve. This is so important for poultry who have limited antibiotics available to them. Not doing this means you might never be able to use the same antibiotic again in this flock and in future generations if your flock becomes carriers. So don't skip a day, don't end it early.

 

[tigerlilly2588]

I am just curious, & I know it depends on the species and whrther the infection is viral or bacterial, but I was just wondering....Has anyone ever had any problem with this type of chicken illness being transmitted to any other pets? Dogs, cats, other birds?

All I know is that herbivore birds especially( no matter if they're parrots, chickens, etc.) are always near the bottom of the food chain and b/c they're prey animals for other species, they rarely actually display symptoms until the condition has become quite bad. I try to wash my hands often but I guess I'm just a little paranoid...lol

 

[threehorses]

I really believe I had one that was transmitted once: pastuerella. I could be wrong, but I got a trio of very very nice show RIR's in once. They were absolutely stunning. Unfortunately they came to me sick - the shipment brought something out in them. They were meant to be quarantined anyway, but outside. But because of the circumstances, I couldn't. Outside quarantine was supposed to be for 'well' birds - not snotty faced sneezers. So I got a bit metal water trough and set up a home for them inside.

I also had some guineapigs as pets. I didn't think the illness would spread, but within short order I lost several guineapigs at once to what I knew for them was pasteurella (by the smell). So...

Other birds, yes. If you have parrots or cage birds, be particularly careful anyway to wash up well and even change clothes if you've been handling the sick ones just in case.

I'm a little paranoid here - especially after the big scare years ago where the had some postmen going around and telling the state ag people who had chickens. People who had both chickens and parrots were threatened that their parrots could be taken off. It was dreadful. The diseases they were talking about spread from one to another.

So I started to really think about that kind of stuff. Here, with well birds, we come in and wash hands immediately - or use the antibacterial hand stuff out in the barn before coming in - then wash thoroughly. It's great stuff to have around. By the time you get in, it's had time enough to be on your hands and kill germs. Especially because some germs are harmful to all species (E. coli, salmonella germs, etc) it's just a good practice.

 

[tigerlilly2588]

Oh really?! Thats scary! I have an african grey parrot who has his own bedroom ( mostly b/c of the size of his cage among other reasons)... anyway I was keeping my brooder with my to new baby chicks in his room like the first couple days that I got them,...but then I heard my parrot sneeze several times and I decided to move them right away! He has already gotten one birdy virus ( maybe from a bird show I took him to?) and nearly died, so I'm am never risking that again!

 

[threehorses]

Yeah you do really have to keep them apart. I'm always paranoid about that as I lost a grey to PDD once (when they didn't know what it was) and always wondered if it wasn't related to the chickens.

In fact, my other grey (starwynn) is sleeping now as apparently I'm too boring for her this evening.

And yes - they do need a little more attention paid to their calcium. For greys, they often recommend the type of sun-light-lamps that I'm sure you probably know about.

Here's the article by the fabulous (but unfortunately now deceased) Dr. McWatters. It's really a great article with a lot of good information that applies to chickens in many ways.

http://www.africangreys.com/articles/nutrition/calcium.htm

 

[tigerlilly2588]

Hey thanks that site was very informative! I've been out of town so I just saw your reply. I;m so sorry to hear about your bird passing! PDD is actually what my poor baby has. I got him from a breeder when he was about 6-8 weeks out of the egg...I had him on reserve( paid $1100) and had been going to visit him ever since he was born. But then one day I went to visit him and all his hatch mates had been sold and he was all alone so even though I knew I would have to syringe feed him(...he wasn't even old enough to perch...) I decided to take him home. He was the cutest baby! I was taking summer classes in college at the time and hadn't planned on taking hime that early but it worked out for the best...I carried him around in an easter basket with me all over the house, anywhere I went. About 6 mo. rolled by and I was still feeding him his baby formula..lol..I didn't know any better, I had never had a parrot before. Then one day he wouldn't eat for me in the morning before I went to class and he was a little puffed up but I figured he was probably just cranky from lack of sleep or something. I came back home at noon to try it again and this time he ate but then immediately threw it up.

I was puzzled b/c he had seemed completely fine the day before so I just figured that he must have already eaten some seeds and that I had just feed him too much. wishful thinking on my part I guess. I remember that was a friday and by the time I got home later that night and realized that there was really something wrong, it was too late to take him to the vet. The next morning I got up early and took him and they said that a bird that has not eaten or pooped in 24 hrs was critically ill and being that they were apparently unable to cater to him, they suggested that I should drive him hours away to knoxville where supposedly the vets at the vet school might be able to help him. In a panic, I called every vet I could think of and to my astonishment, not a single vet in nashville or anyone I could find that was close by knew anything about sick parrots. As I was packing up my car in tears to go on this wild goose chase, believing that I probably only had hours left with my poor baby, a thought came to me. The nashville zoo has parrots and someone has to take care of them. In one last desperate attempt, I called them up begging for their help. They gave me the # of this little tiny vet office over an hr away who told me that they would be closing shortly, being that it was now later in the day on saturday. I cried and pleeded for them to wait for me and eventually they said ok. Long story short...4 days in the hospital & $2000 later they told me he had PDD but that it could be managed with a drug called metacam. I buy it monthy for him and he takes 1/10 ml, 2 times/ day ( with a little formula to disguise it so he doesn't protest) He just turned 5 yrs old in may and seems to be in tip top shape!

:Here he is.. my gorgeous boy!

 

[dlhunicorn]

re the question "can poultry (disease) infect other animals / humans and vice versa:

http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/bbchomel/WHO_Zoonoses/PDF/Avianzoo1.pdf
Avian Zoonoses

 

[threehorses]

Tigerlilly, he's really gorgeous! He's a beautiful silver color and reminds me very much of my "Wowwie". The metacam is brilliant stuff. Unfortunately Wowwie had damage from her PDD and not just the inflammation. We tried metacam but it was too late for her. I'm SO THRILLED, unbelievably thrilled that your boy is doing well!

There's so much more information now on PDD, and the Schubert center at Texas A&M has isolated the infective organism now. Such hope! You really did luck out at getting a vet that was on the ball, starting the Metacam. Thank you so much for sharing this with me. As I still have five other parrots (2 mollucans, 1 MSC2, 1 Eclectus hen, and Starwynn - my CAG) I still worry about one of them carrying PDD as not much is known about it still. But your story eases my heart. I know what I'm going to do the instant anything comes up with any of my birds! Thank you and many hugs!! (And beak kisses for your beautiful boy from my Starwynn).