Main rooster letting his son mate all his hens

[Altairsky]

I'm planning to select for a better rooster. I'm currently keeping my 2 years old legbar rooster (that will have to go) and his 4 months old EE son.
I thought the old dominant rooster would keep his hens safe and teach his son manners, but he's letting him mate all his hens in front of his face, all the time. Seriously, he just look at him go, and appreciate the sight!
Is this normal? The old rooster is still 100% dominant. The hens appreciate the attention from the old rooster, they don't appreciate the cockerel much, no matter how hard he tries to impress them. But he still mates, and most hens will let him mate them without much fuss.
I wanted to have another batch from dad before culling him, but looks like the next generation will be a genetic soup!

 

[Mrs. K]

Hmmm, I don't think he is 100% dominant.

 

[Perris]

Is this normal?

In my experience, yes. Biologically the son is carrying the sire's genes and the sire may see the son as an extension of himself when it comes to mating. Academic discussions of mate sharing in some species extend the same rationale to brothers sharing females though that is a more dilute form of passing on one's genes.

Here some roos sometimes knock another roo off a hen they're trying to mate, but at least as often they just leave them to get on with it. There are too many roos and too many random instances of both behaviours for me to have spotted any patterns as yet. But I have many times witnessed a sire just stand by while his son (or a male raised within the flock, whatever his real genetics) mates a hen or pullet.

 

[gullinkambe]

I remember having a similar case way-back-when, with some of my first roosters. The "old boss" was a big Brahma, and the younger was a Sussex raised with the flock. When I incubated the eggs, I got one (1!) offspring from the old one. The Brahma was clearly the most respected one, but he let the younger do the "hard work".

I just figured it was down to laziness. In my experience, Brahma's and other big breeds tend to get quite stationary after a few years, and he just didn't bother doing all that gymnastics anymore

 

[Altairsky]

Academic discussions of mate sharing in some species extend the same rationale to brothers sharing females

From my experience, brothers do fight for dominance, there is clearly one dominant brother. Dominance can be swapped through fights.
Generally, young brothers will gang up to submit a lone hen to the point of hurting the hen, so I generally never keep more brothers together and I cull any extras as soon as they're of culling age.

I had a wonderful cockerel once which I sold (I'm biting my hands off thinking about it, but he was too large for my bantams).
He was the last one from a batch of 6 males.
He knew he couldn't get any of the mature hens because he was intimidated by his father so he focused on the young chicks. He would guard the chicks, follow them, and he would always break the fights between the 2 cockerels. He was trying to baby the chicks so he could have a chance of mating with the pullets once they matured.
When I sold all the pullets, I put them in a cardboard box in the garage, waiting for the client.
I found this cockerel inside the garage, sitting next to the cardboard box. It was heartbreaking.
On a good note, the client saw the cockerel, he really liked him, and he came back to buy him, so I hope this good cockerel rejoined his beloved pullets.

 

[Shadrach]

https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article-abstract/28/3/760/3057961?redirectedFrom=fulltext

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170329103326.htm

 

[Shadrach]

From my experience, brothers do fight for dominance, there is clearly one dominant brother. Dominance can be swapped through fights.

As with everything chicken behaviour related, it's more complicated than some studies would have one believe.
There is also the added problem that some people report harmony within a multi generational group with multiple males when reading other posts about their flock one finds things are not quite as harmonious as the poster would have one believe; injured cockerels and roosters, satellite males bullied away form the senior roosters favourite hens, etc.

In the vast majority of cases I've seen, it is more as you describe; competition between males.
Much seems to depend on the personality of the senior rooster and the competing cockerel/rooster; the position of the female in the hierarchy (favourites of the senior rooster being off limits while pullets fair game) the likelihood of the competing junior male enticing a female to leave the group and become the juniors partner, the amount of space available for establishing a new tribe...

Very close confinement has in my experience may lead to a minimum conflict strategy between males because there is nowhere to go when things go wrong.
I've had numerous junior males attract junior females and start their own tribes. Sometimes the senior male will try to prevent this happening but more often than not if the senior has his favourites he isn't overly bothered if the juniors leave the group. This seems natural to me; the young leaving home to start their own families.

 

[Perris]

https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article-abstract/28/3/760/3057961?redirectedFrom=fulltext

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170329103326.htm

the first of those was one of the papers I was thinking of; thanks for linking. (the second is just a digest of the same paper, in Science Daily)

 

[Perris]

brothers do fight for dominance, there is clearly one dominant brother.

yes, but dominance and mating are 2 different things. Different hens and pullets find different things attractive. The dominant roo here is not and never has been as popular as his hatch-mate and no. 2 roo, who is MUCH more popular with the senior hens. The dominant's most consistent companion/mate is a mid age mid status hen. But there is a lot of promiscuity here.

He knew he couldn't get any of the mature hens because he was intimidated by his father so he focused on the young chicks.

so he could have a chance of mating with the pullets once they matured

I have seen the same behaviour you describe too, with a cockerel sometimes taking on guardianship of a broody and chicks, occasionally extending to looking after the chicks when/if they're in the wilderness teen months, though it has not extended to recruiting them into any sort of permanently separate group as per Shadrach's experience. Here the dominant roo pays particular attention to POL pullets, but only while they are POL. They seem to appreciate his attention initially, but it soon wears off once they're laying regularly, and they have eyes for other roos too.

Space and visibility may be significant factors in these behaviours. It is very rare for all my flock to be visible to all, even at mealtimes. Apart from being quicker or slower to breakfast or dinner or roost, throughout the day they wander off in different directions foraging in variable size groups, and are each often hidden from the rest (or me, or predators) by shrubs, buildings, or other cover.

Displays of dominance include chasing one another round the house or through the undergrowth, most of which is out of sight of whoever happens to be wherever. So there are lots of mating opportunities and lots of evasion opportunities here, for roos, cockerels, hens and pullets.

When there is a *fight* for dominance (rather than a display, a chase, or the equivalent of a clip round the ear) it happens in full view, on the lawn, and it attracts others' attention if it is between serious contenders for top spot, and is basically ignored by everyone if it is youngsters flexing their muscles or practicing.

 

[Perris]

I came across this today and thought you might find it useful / interesting @Altairsky http://dx.doi.org/10.1098/rstb.2020.0081