Managing a self-sustaining flock

[gtown]

In central Texas we have hawks, fox, all the usual predators. I feel that our large, usually outside dogs deter predators The dogs are trained to ignore the chickens (not that hard to do-be very firm and they'll understand). Seems to work for us.

 

[gjensen]

A self sustaining flock is not possible in a temperate climate, and not realistic otherwise. We are not raising jungle fowl, and we are not in tropical Southeast Asia. We also expect a return, and that requires an investment. We get out what we put in, and with good management, we could possibly see a profit.

Now, I realize that is understood. It is important to define what we are trying to accomplish. Why do we have the birds to begin with? Eggs for the kitchen? A seasonal meat source? etc. etc.

On a single acre, even the idea is at a disadvantage. We would be better off with bantams. Or even bantam x large fowl crosses. What I am trying to express is there is a limited amount of resources. Fowl half the size, lays an egg 3/4 of the full size, and eats 1/2 a much feed to maintain body weight.

Unless we are willing to grow a substantial amount of grain and legumes, bantams or shrunk down large fowl fit this conversation better. Even that is not what people want to hear. Somehow, bigger is always better though it rarely is.

Roughly 60% of the birds dietary needs is a high energy food source. They have very high metabolisms, very high heart rates and respiration rates etc. These birds are rarely sitting still even when they are still. This becomes clear when we try to take a picture of them. Anyways, priority number one is a digestible energy source. They need larger quantities of it than the others. This is why the corn/soy combination drives the market. It is the ability to produce and harvest lbs. per acre, but also an excellent and digestible energy source. Soy compliments the corn concerning the amino acid profile, but is high in protein where corn is very low. Soy is also a high energy source of digestible protein.

Green forage that is lower fiber and digestible can make up 25% of the diet if the percentage crude protein is decent. I like to further break it down into greens, herbs, and legumes. We can decide for ourselves what is available, but I feel that a variety of all three are important.

The last 15% should be a high protein source. This can be soldier fly larvae, or meat scraps from the kitchen etc.

Now we do not have to be precisely perfect all of the time, but we should know our birds and monitor their condition. Earlier growers did not have the commercial rations that we do, and became good "feeders". They developed an eye for their birds condition and were able to identify what corrections might need to be made to get them at top condition. Though there can be periods of maintenance, it is a false economy to operate under the premise that less is more. It is not more, and is only less. As a consequence, deficient. Then the birds suffer, and we suffer.

Grass is part of the birds diet, but should be a small part. Grass is a high fiber food item. Chickens are low fiber animals. They are not cows, rabbits, goats, or horses. When we consider greens for poultry, preferably it is young and tender. Not that they cannot utilize it otherwise, but as a matter of necessary preference. If all the bird has is grass, it will not thrive.

Poultry quickly depletes an area of diversity, insects etc. Better birds for this are birds that forage widely. Frankly, fluffy, large, soft feathered roost potatoes do not fit this model. They are big eaters, and high maintenance. You want active and assertive breeds that range far. Again, if they are restricted to an acre, bantams or shrunk down large fowl might be a better option. Sometimes less bird is a good idea. That can be smaller birds, or less birds. 4 commercial leghorns will cover up most families with eggs.

We should be realistic about what we can provide, what they have access to etc.

Broody hens is a reasonable option when managed well.

 

[Free Feather]

It is odd what some people consider self sustaining. True self sustaining is zero supplemental feed, complete independence in breeding, hatching, and rearing young, healthy and free of reproductive and genetic issues, and street smart about predators and weather. Most people do not have sufficient forage for truly self sustaining chickens, especially if you live in a climate that is not warm all year. Each bird, in a warm climate, would need at least an acre of DIVERSE land to find enough food off of, and I still would not expect year round eggs or extra fat on the birds. I do not care what anyone says; freaking Buff Orpingtons and other fluffy, cute, dual purpose lump chickens, as much as I love them, are not the birds to be looking at to do this with. You need game birds, Nankins, Orientals, perhaps with a cochin or silkie or a big broody thrown in here and there for size and mothering qualities, or maybe a Dual Purpose for a little better protection against predators, but mostly game. If you really wanted eggs you could cross with an Egyptian Fayoumi or a like breed for eggs and vigor since they are not too far on the dumpy domestic side. My best all day foragers, best flyers, mothers, and street smart chickens are my games mutts. They have Cochin, silkie, and Easter Egger thrown in for diversity, but they are primarily game and Nankin. You have to be careful with some wilder bantams that you do not get show type ones that have been living in cages for the last few generations are so. It would not be too big of a deal, but you want to stick as close as you can to the wilder chickens for sustainability.

 

[Pork Pie]

In African (and I'm sure many other parts of the world) having chickens is a way of life for most rural people (typically accounting for 60-75% of any country's population). The majority of these birds free range - be it in local fields or the neighbourhood. It does work, but the egg production can be as low as 40-60 eggs per year (reportedly, in Kenya - where i live) and the carcass weight is very low.

I have owned some of these hens (my first ever hens) and found that with commercial feed and free ranging in the garden, they produced many more eggs than than 40-60 (in fact, only stopped laying through broodiness).

My personal conclusion is that if you want a totally self-sustaining flock, then be prepared to accept lower egg productivity and lower carcass weights, combined with potentially considerable losses due to predators. For sure, breed will be a big issue (unless you live in the developing world, where centuries of natural selection has dealt with this) also.

CT

 

[Daniel115865]

How has your goal been coming along? To answer your question of breeds I would look at breeds that have been around for ages. Swedish flower hens are a landrace and are friendly around humans but still have enough street smarts and would adapt to cold. Dorkings have been around since Roman imperial times and are good foragers and even sometimes take on other chicks not of their own. Marsh daisies might be good for swampy land, Iowa blues have been touted to fend off birds of prey, catalanas are good foragers in hotter climates. There are plenty of breeds that are good for different needs. Red caps used to be the most profitable chicken to raise in olden days because they were good layers and bad succulent meat. They also were pretty good foragers something that is not prized as today because people love gentle birds that had the survival instinct bred out of them. Orpingtons, Brahma, Cochins etc.

 

[Daniel115865]

Also a good site that has a good description of breeds in my opinion would be to google “A to Z star mill”

 

[Pearl's mom]

When you look back at history as far as food production, it is important to remember a lot of people went hungry during different times of the year, and some years were much better than others. As man did more interventions, food became more consistently available, all year long, and every year.

However, I too have played with this idea. A couple of discoveries I have made.

* bugs are available here only about 3 months out of the year. During the height of summer, my hens will eat less commercial feed. Mine are good foragers, love scratching, and would probably survive without as much feed, but the laying would suffer. In the old days, eggs were very difficult to come by at different times of the year.

* Keep the age of your flock young, I have heard otherwise, but right now I have 2 three year olds, that are not laying at all. Young hens tend to lay through out the winter.... better. And are laying well now. Maybe there eggs are a bit smaller, but they have them nearly every day.

* Mine free range in all the acres that they want - there is no fence to keep them close by, but they tend to stay fairly close to their coop. We live on a ranch, and have no close neighbors.

* I have a rooster, and I think it does help. I have raised chicks with a broody hen for the last three years, and will hopefully never have to go back to buying chicks or hatching eggs any other way. However, I have bought chicks to slip under a broody hen at hatching time, to add some different breeds to my flock.

* Lots of chickens cost lots of money. I have found that for my family, 6-10 hens is almost perfect. But that would depend on the number in your family.

I have kept chickens for the last 5 years continuously, and at different times before that. I hope you consider this a contribution to this idea.

MrsK

 

[Pearl's mom]

I am always facinated by the different definitions that people use for the same words. When I heard 'self-sufficient' I understood it to mean raising enough grain to get the chickens through the winter - assuming that forage/bugs were not to available.

I need 120-130 lbs of grain per full sized chicken per year. I agree with MrsK, foraging is best and I wish that I could let my birds out to forage. Our neighbors have tried to let their chickens out, but we have hawks, racoons, foxes and coyotes, and his birds last about 2 months. The only way we would still have a flock of birds in one year is to enclose them. Michael, my heart agrees with you, I would love my birds to be outside living off of the land, but I love them and don't want them killed or injured by the local predators. A broody hen is a 'sitting duck' to predators.

I certainly don't have the experience that many BYCers have, but I have been raising chickens for a few years. I have mostly heritage, dual purpose chickens. I have noticed that my Domineckers and Speckled Sussex seem to want to go outside everytime I open the door. My Australorps, Dark Brahmas, Orpingtons and Wyandottes seem content to say inside. I bring all of the weeds that I pull to them, their chicken house has a dirt floor for scratching, windows for sunshine, and lots and lots of ventilation - not quite the wide open prarie, but hopefully enough to keep them happy.

Michael - good luck finding a compromise that will work in your environment.

Me K,
When you say you have out a few chicks under a broody hen at hatching time, we're other chicks already hatched? If so, how old were they?

 

[Pearl's mom]

Me K,
When you say you have out a few chicks under a broody hen at hatching time, we're other chicks already hatched? If so, how old were they?