Managing Multiple Breeding Groups

[Waterfaery]

I'm trying to figure out the best way to keep a small flock of multiple breeds including roosters for each breed so I can keep breeding them myself. I don't want lots of birds because I have no interest in selling eggs, chicks or anything else so I only want enough to fill our family's needs.

I have La Bresse that I want to breed for meat and I'd like to keep three or four other breeds as well for a variety of eggs and because I just like the breeds. I'm thinking maybe 3-4 hens and a rooster for each breed and maybe also a backup rooster for each and then there will also be the growers to manage as well. I have plenty of space with several acres and two portable electric fences so they will be moved around, pastured style.

I have searched and read the other threads about this topic but can't decide what's best. So my questions are:

1. I've been reading about possibly keeping the roosters together in a bachelor flock and separating out the desired breeding group(s) at the desired time. Can anyone who does it this way or has tried it advise what the pros and cons are in practice? I'm wondering how it affects their social pecking order and if it's stressful to them? Is there anything else about it I need to consider?

2. I'm also wondering if it's possible or a terrible idea to just separate out the breeding groups for a couple of hours each day for a couple of weeks while I collect hatching eggs and then put them back in their same sex flocks for the rest of the day and overnight? That way I wouldn't have to build multiple breeding coops and pens that would only be used for a small amount of time. Is this a viable option or is it crazy?

3. I would like the hens to sit and raise the chicks. Does having them separated by sex interfere with broodiness etc? Will it make it more difficult because I'd have to get the timing right for when to start breeding them? For example, I don't want broody hens sitting on infertile eggs and I don't want lots of fertile eggs with no broody hens!

4. The only alternative I can think of is to keep each breed in separate coops and either subdivide the area within the electric fences or build a small run for each coop and give them turns in the larger area. I'm not really keen on doing it this way because I think they'd be confined more than I want and it involves a lot of extra hassle, cost and infrastructure. I also don't see how it would be possible to keep a spare rooster for each breed this way anyway. So is there any other option that I haven't thought of? I'm open to any ideas!

 

[3KillerBs]

 

[3KillerBs]

I was reminded on the drive to work that I have fencing envy when I see a certain piece of property. The owner apparently once bred dogs because there is a wonderful row of 4-5 10x20 pens with simple shelters at one end.

I keep thinking how lovely they'd be for keeping breeding groups of chickens.

I can't think how it would be possible to keep different breeds/groups from crossing without keeping them separate -- at least during the prime breeding season. I think it would be highly disruptive to be constantly moving males in and out of a flock.

I recently rehomed one of my males and I can see a new set of dynamics as the remaining male forms relationships with the hens who had preferred the other rooster.

Additionally, if you take a male out of the bachelor pen for a time and then try to put him back it seems likely to get bloody.

 

[NatJ]

I can't tell if you already know this, but hens can store sperm from mating with a rooster.
For the rooster you want, figure they will store sperm for about a week after mating.
For the rooster you don't want, figure they will store sperm for 3 weeks or perhaps longer.

(Fertility tends to be good for about the first week, tapering off after that, but some studies found fertile eggs for up to 3 weeks in a few cases, and some people on this forum have found it longer than that.)

So plan that hens need to be separate from the other roosters for about a month, with the right rooster for at least a few days at the end of that time, and then lay the eggs you want to hatch.

3. I would like the hens to sit and raise the chicks. Does having them separated by sex interfere with broodiness etc?

Hens should go broody just fine.

Will it make it more difficult because I'd have to get the timing right for when to start breeding them? For example, I don't want broody hens sitting on infertile eggs and I don't want lots of fertile eggs with no broody hens!

Yes, you will have to get the timing right.

But hens mostly go broody in the spring and early summer, with some doing it again later in the summer or on into the fall.

So as long as you plan for the right general season, it might not be too bad.

If you write down when hens go broody, you can look at it later and see what the pattern is-- so even if it the first ones catch you unprepared the first year, you will know for the next year.

4. The only alternative I can think of is to keep each breed in separate coops... don't see how it would be possible to keep a spare rooster for each breed this way

A separate coop for each breed is sometimes a good choice.

You can probably keep all the spare roosters together in a bachelor flock.

So is there any other option that I haven't thought of? I'm open to any ideas!

I think you are trying to make plans that work all year long.

But most people do not want to hatch eggs all year, and hens mostly go broody in the spring.
So you might want to do something that changes by season.

For example:
later summer, fall, early winter, all adult chickens are housed in one big group, or in two single-sex groups.

late winter, 100% separate of the sexes to avoid unplanned matings.

spring, make breeding groups, each in their own pen. Extra males are in a bachelor flock. Because this is spring, the weather is getting nicer, so the "pens" might be something like covered dog runs, each with a roost & nestbox.

As each hen goes broody, you give her a clutch of eggs from one breed or another (does not have to be her own breed.) You might need a bunch of small coops, so each hen has her own space and no other hen adds eggs to her clutch.

When you have enough clutches of chicks being raised, you can combine all the chickens back into one big flock. (It might be simple, might not.)

As each hen hatches her eggs, you can probably let her and her chicks join the big flock in a few days or a week.

As summer goes on, you'll have the whole big flock (roosters & hens, or two single sex groups.) You might have hens & chicks in the coops that used to have breeding groups, or you might have them loose with the whole flock or with just the hens.

Later in the summer, you will butcher any extra chickens (young stock and older adults), and then you should be back to the start of the rotation.

...keep each breed in separate coops.... not really keen on doing it this way because I think they'd be confined more than I want and it involves a lot of extra hassle, cost and infrastructure.

Having several coops can be handy. Sometimes they can house breeding groups, sometimes they can hold broodies or chicks that are growing, or ones that you intend to butcher, or ones that are being picked on, or various other categories.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-do-yall-set-up-your-breeding-pens.740721/
This thread has some photos of a nice row of pens that would be good in just about any weather.

But hoop coops rather like this could work too:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/cattle-panel-hoop-coop.74636/

Or something based on big dog kennels.

If you have other animals, think about what times of year they need what kinds of pens, because you might get extra use out of the same structures.

Where I live in the USA, we have to worry about quite a few predators (cats, dogs, raccoons, foxes almost everywhere, and some areas have weasels, coyotes, wolves, bobcats, bears, and so forth).

Raccoons are really good at climbing things, reaching through holes to grab chickens, or ripping chicken wire to make a hole they can get in. Once you get a pen raccoon-proof, I think it will keep out almost anything else too, except possibly a bear.

But I see you're in Ireland, so I'm not sure which predators you have to deal with. Just do think about them, because you don't want your breeding groups to be wiped out while living in temporary pens!

 

[3KillerBs]

For the rooster you don't want, figure they will store sperm for 3 weeks or perhaps longer.

Ever so true!

And the one you SEE mating might not be the one fathering the chicks. It could be the stealthy guy.

 

[Waterfaery]

I think it would be highly disruptive to be constantly moving males in and out of a flock.

I was worried someone might say that! You're probably right.

Additionally, if you take a male out of the bachelor pen for a time and then try to put him back it seems likely to get bloody.

If I were to try it this way, I'd never take just one out. I'd take a few at a time and put them back together. I suppose in one way I wondered if taking them out for short periods daily over a couple of weeks would be better than taking them out for a week or two straight because the remaining bachelor flock wouldn't have time to establish a new pecking order in their absence. But I've never done it so maybe that logic doesn't work in practice.

 

[NatJ]

If I were to try it this way, I'd never take just one out. I'd take a few at a time and put them back together. I suppose in one way I wondered if taking them out for short periods daily over a couple of weeks would be better than taking them out for a week or two straight because the remaining bachelor flock wouldn't have time to establish a new pecking order in their absence. But I've never done it so maybe that logic doesn't work in practice.

There is someone on the forum who does have a bachelor flock, take males out to breed, and put them back. It apparently works for them.

Unfortunately, I can't remember who it is, or the details of how they do it

 

[Waterfaery]

I can't tell if you already know this, but hens can store sperm from mating with a rooster.
For the rooster you want, figure they will store sperm for about a week after mating.
For the rooster you don't want, figure they will store sperm for 3 weeks or perhaps longer.

(Fertility tends to be good for about the first week, tapering off after that, but some studies found fertile eggs for up to 3 weeks in a few cases, and some people on this forum have found it longer than that.)

So plan that hens need to be separate from the other roosters for about a month, with the right rooster for at least a few days at the end of that time, and then lay the eggs you want to hatch.


Hens should go broody just fine.


Yes, you will have to get the timing right.

But hens mostly go broody in the spring and early summer, with some doing it again later in the summer or on into the fall.

So as long as you plan for the right general season, it might not be too bad.

If you write down when hens go broody, you can look at it later and see what the pattern is-- so even if it the first ones catch you unprepared the first year, you will know for the next year.



A separate coop for each breed is sometimes a good choice.

You certainly probably keep all the spare roosters together in a bachelor flock.


I think you are trying to make plans that work all year long.

But most people do not want to hatch eggs all year, and hens mostly go broody in the spring.
So you might want to do something that changes by season.

For example:
later summer, fall, early winter, all adult chickens are housed in one big group, or in two single-sex groups.

late winter, 100% separate of the sexes to avoid unplanned matings.

spring, make breeding groups, each in their own pen. Extra males are in a bachelor flock. Because this is spring, the weather is getting nicer, so the "pens" might be something like covered dog runs, each with a roost & nestbox.

As each hen goes broody, you give her a clutch of eggs from one breed or another (does not have to be her own breed.) You might need a bunch of small coops, so each hen has her own space and no other hen adds eggs to her clutch.

When you have enough clutches of chicks being raised, you can combine all the chickens back into one big flock. (It might be simple, might not.)

As each hen hatches her eggs, you can probably let her and her chicks join the big flock in a few days or a week.

As summer goes on, you'll have the whole big flock (roosters & hens, or two single sex groups.) You might have hens & chicks in the coops that used to have breeding groups, or you might have them loose with the whole flock or with just the hens.

Later in the summer, you will butcher any extra chickens (young stock and older adults), and then you should be back to the start of the rotation.



Having several coops can be handy. Sometimes they can house breeding groups, sometimes they can hold broodies or chicks that are growing, or ones that you intend to butcher, or ones that are being picked on, or various other categories.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-do-yall-set-up-your-breeding-pens.740721/
This thread has some photos of a nice row of pens that would be good in just about any weather.

But hoop coops rather like this could work too:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/cattle-panel-hoop-coop.74636/

Or something based on big dog kennels.

If you have other animals, think about what times of year they need what kinds of pens, because you might get extra use out of the same structures.

Where I live in the USA, we have to worry about quite a few predators (cats, dogs, raccoons, foxes almost everywhere, and some areas have weasels, coyotes, wolves, bobcats, bears, and so forth).

Raccoons are really good at climbing things, reaching through holes to grab chickens, or ripping chicken wire to make a hole they can get in. Once you get a pen raccoon-proof, I think it will keep out almost anything else too, except possibly a bear.

But I see you're in Ireland, so I'm not sure which predators you have to deal with. Just do think about them, because you don't want your breeding groups to be wiped out while living in temporary pens!

Wow, what a super detailed response, thank you for taking the time to share all of that! It's ever so helpful.

I'm going to give your ideas a lot of thought and I'll check out those links and put a bit more research into your suggestion of multi-purpose coops. It's a lot to think about so I'll definitely have more questions. For example, when I put the breeding groups together in the spring, how long would I keep them like that? Would it be just a few days to let them mate and then re-separate them or would I leave them like that for the whole spring or until hens go broody?

Yes, it's so important to take the predators seriously! We're very lucky here in Ireland that we don't have anything on the scale of what you have to deal with over there. We have foxes, stoats, pine martens and occasionally mink. Foxes and stoats are the only ones in our area and foxes would be the main concern.

Sorry I should have said, I have been keeping hens for years (basic laying hybrids) so I'm not new to predator proofing. It will be our first time breeding chickens and first time doing meat as well. Our current hens are elderly now and live in a stationary coop inside a sectioned off part of our predator proof peafowl aviary. We will let them live out their days there and then give that section over to the peafowl.

Our new flock will be pastured so we have bought 2 x 50m lengths of electric poultry fencing which we can use either separately or combined. So far we've built one mobile coop which has my 5 week old Light Sussex and Australorp chicks in it and the La Bresse are 3 days old in an indoor brooder. So we will be building more coops over the next while. I'm starting to think that waiting a year before adding the other breeds I want might be best so that we can get an idea of what works first (although it's so hard to resist the temptation!). Whatever happens, everything we do, including any temporary pens etc will have to be located within the electric fences so hopefully there will be no foxes destroying our flock.

So much to think about! But you've given me some great ideas and a better place to start refining some details. Thank you!

 

[Waterfaery]

There is someone on the forum who does have a bachelor flock, take males out to breed, and put them back. It apparently works for them.

Unfortunately, I can't remember who it is, or the details of how they do it

Thanks, I'll try to find them. I may have come across them during my research but I'll look through again more carefully and see if I can find who you mean.

 

[NatJ]

when I put the breeding groups together in the spring, how long would I keep them like that? Would it be just a few days to let them mate and then re-separate them or would I leave them like that for the whole spring or until hens go broody?

I would probably keep the breeding groups together until you have enough broody hens sitting on eggs, or maybe even until you have enough chicks hatched. That way you know you're done, instead of potentially having to set it up again.

I've had chicks hatch with unexpected traits (feathered feet from clean-footed parents, white chicks from parents that should produce only black chicks, etc.) If you get something like that, where only a few chicks are right, it's easy to put eggs under the next hen who goes broody, and then you can pick the right chicks out of several clutches. But that's only easy if the breeding groups are still set up.