Managing Multiple Breeding Groups

[Waterfaery]

I would probably keep the breeding groups together until you have enough broody hens sitting on eggs, or maybe even until you have enough chicks hatched. That way you know you're done, instead of potentially having to set it up again.

I've had chicks hatch with unexpected traits (feathered feet from clean-footed parents, white chicks from parents that should produce only black chicks, etc.) If you get something like that, where only a few chicks are right, it's easy to put eggs under the next hen who goes broody, and then you can pick the right chicks out of several clutches. But that's only easy if the breeding groups are still set up.

Thank you, that makes sense.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I'll expand a bit on what NatJ said. It takes about 25 hours for an egg to go through a hen's internal egg making factory. The egg can only be fertilized in the first few minutes of that journey. That means if a mating takes place on a Monday, Monday's egg will not be fertile from that mating. Can't be. Tuesday's egg might or might not be depending on timing. I would not count on it. Wednesday's will be.

But a rooster does not mate with every hen in his flock every day. He doesn't have to. In the last part of the mating act, the rooster hops off, his part is done. The hen fstands up, fluffs up. and shakes. That fluffy shake positions the sperm in a special container near where the egg starts its journey where it may remain viable for 9 days to over 3 weeks. So if you want to clean a hen from a specific rooster you need to keep them separated for at least three weeks, four is better. If you want to count on a hen laying fertile eggs, I wouldn't keep them separated for much more than a week. This might help you with your timing and planning.

You can try any of the ways you mentioned. We all have different conditions. Things that work for one person might not work for another. We all have our own unique set-ups, each chicken has its own personality, each flock has its unique flock dynamics (which can change with the addition of removal of one chicken), different management techniques, different climates, the differences just go on and on. I can't tell you what will or won't work for you, let alone which is best. I will say the more room the better and that most breeders use mature roosters and hens, not immature cockerels and pullets which helps a lot to avoid behavioral problems. I remember a thread from several years back where breeders discussed using mature breeding chickens and missing out on a lot of the behavior problems they read about in this forum.

I love my broody hens, I let 3 or 4 hatch and raise the chicks every year. But you cannot count in broody hens to go broody when you want them to. You never know if one will even go broody at a bad time. If a hen is broody she is not laying eggs. If you only have 3 hens and one is broody, you can only collect the eggs of that breed from what the other two lay, and that may not be an egg from both every day. A broody hen doesn't care who laid the egg so as long as you can tell which chicks are which breed that may not be a big handicap. I don't know how many chicks of each breed you want to hatch or how critical timing is for those hatches. I have serious doubts you will find broody hens to be what you need. I think incubators (plural) are in your future. It's the only way you can control how many eggs are set and when they hatch.

How many chicks you want to hatch and how often would be controlling factors for me. Not knowing those details my first thought would be the two same sex flocks using that electric netting to give them a lot of room. That netting should stop every ground based predator you mentioned but won't do anything for flying predators. Then have separate breeding pens as needed. You might have some drama as you move roosters in or out. You might have drama in the hen pen too. Some of those chances of drama depend on if you remove or add the dominant chicken in that pen.

What you want to do is manageable but it will take work and some extra pens. Good luck!

 

[Waterfaery]

I'll expand a bit on what NatJ said. It takes about 25 hours for an egg to go through a hen's internal egg making factory. The egg can only be fertilized in the first few minutes of that journey. That means if a mating takes place on a Monday, Monday's egg will not be fertile from that mating. Can't be. Tuesday's egg might or might not be depending on timing. I would not count on it. Wednesday's will be.

But a rooster does not mate with every hen in his flock every day. He doesn't have to. In the last part of the mating act, the rooster hops off, his part is done. The hen fstands up, fluffs up. and shakes. That fluffy shake positions the sperm in a special container near where the egg starts its journey where it may remain viable for 9 days to over 3 weeks. So if you want to clean a hen from a specific rooster you need to keep them separated for at least three weeks, four is better. If you want to count on a hen laying fertile eggs, I wouldn't keep them separated for much more than a week. This might help you with your timing and planning.

You can try any of the ways you mentioned. We all have different conditions. Things that work for one person might not work for another. We all have our own unique set-ups, each chicken has its own personality, each flock has its unique flock dynamics (which can change with the addition of removal of one chicken), different management techniques, different climates, the differences just go on and on. I can't tell you what will or won't work for you, let alone which is best. I will say the more room the better and that most breeders use mature roosters and hens, not immature cockerels and pullets which helps a lot to avoid behavioral problems. I remember a thread from several years back where breeders discussed using mature breeding chickens and missing out on a lot of the behavior problems they read about in this forum.

Thank you so much for your reply and such great information!

In terms of the behaviour problems, if I let this year's chicks breed next year and then again the following year, would there be less behaviour problems the second year since they would be more mature then? Or would they continue to have behavioural problems every year afterwards because I let them start breeding too young?

I don't know how many chicks of each breed you want to hatch or how critical timing is for those hatches.

We would want to hatch maybe 30 or so La Bresse per year to raise for meat. With the other breeds, we would only want to hatch enough to replace older birds and generally keep the flock going. I know La Bresse are not known for being broody so my thought was to spread their eggs between the other breeds when they go broody and then let the broody hens hatch a couple of their own eggs as well. The timing wouldn't be critical, other than my concerns about how to manage putting the roosters back together at one time.

I think incubators (plural) are in your future. It's the only way you can control how many eggs are set and when they hatch.

I just bought my incubator this year and have done two hatches. To be honest, I found it very stressful. I have had my peahens hatch and raise their own peachicks and it was a much more enjoyable experience watching things happen naturally. At least I have the incubator as a back up in case I get no broody or in case the broody hens let me down, so I'm hoping to just use it that way if I have to. That's the theory but I suppose, like everything else, I'll have to wait and see what happens in reality!

That netting should stop every ground based predator you mentioned but won't do anything for flying predators.

Luckily, we don't have many of those either. We certainly don't have anything that would take an adult chicken but I know the chicks would need some protection. I have some nice habitat here with lots of natural cover. I was a bit nervous about my current chicks at first because they're the first chicks we've had and they have no hen with them. I've spent a lot of time sitting with them and every time even a crow flies overhead they alarm call and run in under cover. They were three weeks old when I first started bringing them outside during the day and almost four weeks old when they moved outside full time. If the chicks were in a small breeding pen that was fully covered for the first three weeks, maybe that would be best.

What you want to do is manageable but it will take work and some extra pens. Good luck!

Yes, I'm going to have to figure out some extra pens / coops. I was silly to think about not doing that! I've been doing some more research after the previous posts from NatJ and 3KillerBs so am getting some ideas together. I think the biggest thing I've learned so far is that I should start smaller than my original ambitions until I actually get some experience breeding.

Thank you!

 

[NatJ]

In terms of the behaviour problems, if I let this year's chicks breed next year and then again the following year, would there be less behaviour problems the second year since they would be more mature then? Or would they continue to have behavioural problems every year afterwards because I let them start breeding too young?

Next year will probably be better.

We would want to hatch maybe 30 or so La Bresse per year to raise for meat. With the other breeds, we would only want to hatch enough to replace older birds and generally keep the flock going.

Remember that about half of all chicks will be males. So you will end up butchering some males from the other breeds too, along with probably a few pullets (extras, or ones that are not as good as you were hoping), plus some older birds too.

So the Bresse will not be the only chickens you are eating.

(You may have already taken that into consideration, but I'm pointing it out in case you didn't.)

I know La Bresse are not known for being broody so my thought was to spread their eggs between the other breeds when they go broody and then let the broody hens hatch a couple of their own eggs as well.

That sounds sensible to me. As long as you can tell the chicks apart later, mixing breeds in one clutch should be fine.

The timing wouldn't be critical, other than my concerns about how to manage putting the roosters back together at one time.

I think putting them all together at once should be better than doing it one by one, because they are unlikely to all gang up on one. Instead, they have to settle things with everyone all at once.

If you have the breeding pens next to each other, so they still see each other, it might help. People often recommend a "look no touch" setup as the first step in introducing chickens, and adjacent pens would make that happen with no extra work on your part. So the roosters might still remember each other, and remember who is dominant over who, so they might not have to actually fight about it.

If each rooster still has his own hens, they might (mostly) hang out in their own groups instead of fighting.

Or if you put them in same-sex groups, having the pen be "new" to all of them at once will probably help, rather than having some that feel at home and see the others as intruders.

 

[Waterfaery]

Remember that about half of all chicks will be males. So you will end up butchering some males from the other breeds too, along with probably a few pullets (extras, or ones that are not as good as you were hoping), plus some older birds too.

So the Bresse will not be the only chickens you are eating.

(You may have already taken that into consideration, but I'm pointing it out in case you didn't.)

Yes, that's the plan. They will be mostly dual purpose breeds so we can eat the spare birds but we won't be breeding them specifically for that purpose. I may even venture into crossing them with the La Bresse to see what we get, but that would be further into the future.

If you have the breeding pens next to each other, so they still see each other, it might help. People often recommend a "look no touch" setup as the first step in introducing chickens, and adjacent pens would make that happen with no extra work on your part. So the roosters might still remember each other, and remember who is dominant over who, so they might not have to actually fight about it.

If each rooster still has his own hens, they might (mostly) hang out in their own groups instead of fighting.

Or if you put them in same-sex groups, having the pen be "new" to all of them at once will probably help, rather than having some that feel at home and see the others as intruders.

Thanks. What about the spare roosters (backups) who don't leave the bachelor group to breed? I assume it would be best for them to not see the breeding pens? If I keep their numbers even with the ones who do leave and then all come back together, would that be ok?

I still need to learn about adding young cockerels into the bachelor flock as well. Or would I need a separate one for each generation?

 

[NatJ]

Thanks. What about the spare roosters (backups) who don't leave the bachelor group to breed? I assume it would be best for them to not see the breeding pens? If I keep their numbers even with the ones who do leave and then all come back together, would that be ok?

I still need to learn about adding young cockerels into the bachelor flock as well. Or would I need a separate one for each generation?

Here is one article that may be helpful:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/rooster-flocks.72998/

I'm not sure that it matters whether the bachelor group can see the breeding pens or not.

For adding young cockerels to the bachelor flock: do you want to keep some roosters over for another year? Or do you want to replace them?

If you are happy with the current rooster and the current spare, you do not need to add a new cockerel this year.

If you want to replace them all, you choose a new cockerel for breeding, another new cockerel for spare, and butcher all the older roosters.

So introducing would only be an issue if you want to keep some of the older ones and introduce some younger ones.

I don't have much persomal experience introducing cockerels, so the thoughts that follow are guesses based on things I've read:

Maybe divide the bachelor pen and put the young cockerels in one side while the older ones live in the other side. Once the new ones are fully grown, take down the divider and let them mingle.

If you let the main roosters roam with their hens and the broodies & chicks, those roosters & chicks should be integrated with each other. You could choose new spares from the young cockerels, then butcher the old spares, and again you would mostly skip integration. That would also make sure you have some younger roosters when the older ones get too old.

 

[sdm111]

 

[Waterfaery]

If you let the main roosters roam with their hens and the broodies & chicks, those roosters & chicks should be integrated with each other. You could choose new spares from the young cockerels, then butcher the old spares, and again you would mostly skip integration. That would also make sure you have some younger roosters when the older ones get too old.

Thanks, that sounds like a great way to manage it.

 

[Waterfaery]

View attachment 3206691View attachment 3206692

Thanks for sharing that! Is that your own set up?

 

[sdm111]

Thanks for sharing that! Is that your own set up?

Thanks yes
You can also make round grow out pens like this. They're cheap and hold young single well. In the other lic you can see my domes in the background each one is 4' wide x 5'deep