Marans Thread for Posting Pics of Your Eggs, Chicks and Chickens

[Duckett5]

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WONDERFUL

 

[amazondoc]

IMHO, the problem with breeding wheaten to BC is that the trait is so hard to get rid of once you get it into the line. Wheaten is recessive to BC, so it hides. As with Wade Jean's birds, a recessive trait can hang around for years and years and then pop up unexpectedly. So it's best to not introduce the color into the BCs, 'cause once you've got it you may be stuck with it!

 

[onthespot]

I think the only way to get rid of the trait would be to keep some wheaten around and test breed all your CBM stock on wheaten and if they don't produce wheatens in the first generation, they could be considered "wheaten clear". The intentional crossbreds could just be sold as unspecified dark layers, or eaten.

 

[drom]

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You know, you are the only person that I have heard mention that recently. I am sure that for a serious breeder who wants to test their stock before they start selling eggs or developing a line that must be the obvious, best way . I am scratching my head a little here though because I am still not real clear on how Wheaten recessive works.

IMHO-It helps if you start with good stock, but there are going to be issues with any birds you breed. Different lines might have different issues because breeders have different priorities.

 

[alpinefarm]

Ok, I'm jumping in here as a devil's advocate with a question on my mind, hope no one minds me thinking out loud...

Does the actual presence of the recessive Wheaten gene diminish the Black Copper bird itself in any way? Or does the BC diminish the wheaten? What I'm trying to ask is, if a flock is producing wheaten occasionally and one *likes* wheaten as a color and the BC "siblings" are lovely in color, despite carrying the recessive potential, and the Wheaten color is lovely, despite having BC siblings, what does it matter that the two colors coexist? Nature made them both beautiful and if they do not "muddy" one another in some ugly sort of way...then would it not be a delightful thing to have both colors?

I used to show/breed basenjis (yes, the barkless ones!) and tri-color is recessive in the breed. Some fanciers love it, some not. Some breed for it, some away from it. But the recessive gene for it did not affect the red or black coats of the dominant color in any way, so there is no need to "weed it out" from the other colors entirely. Those who want it work to bring it in and those who don't go their own way and steer clear.

If the only reason to reject the Wheaten in BC lines is because the French are particular that way, it seems a little lame (now don't shoot me!) and lacking in American character to decide we must honor that, no matter what, if there is no greater reason than "they prefer it that way." However, if there is a diminishing effect on the BC when the Wheaten recessive is concentrated, then getting the Wheaten separated out completely could be argued for. My humble, non-geneticist opinion.

I, for one, think it would be a thoroughly delightful, unexpected thing to get a pretty Wheaten from a BC hatch! And if I did, I'd wanna crow about it!

 

[ninjapoodles]

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Very interesting...so, with two recessive Wheaten genes, the Wheaten parent would have nothing to contribute to the offspring BUT Wheaten. But...if the BC parent contributed its dominant CB gene instead of its recessive Wheaten gene, wouldn't you get offspring that expressed as CB, thereby giving you a "false clear" for Wheaten on that CB parent? I mean, yeah, you could hatch a whole mess of 'em, and statistically, if the recessive Wheaten gene was there, you'd be highly likely to have offspring that expressed as Wheaten pop up...but not certain of it.

Or, I'm totally misunderstanding the whole concept, because dog color genetics are WAY simpler!

 

[onthespot]

if wheaten is recessive, and the CB parent carried a wheaten gene, and was bred to a wheaten, statistically, HALF their clutch would be wheaten, and you should know in very short order (within a month) whether or not your bird carried wheaten. I personally don't care if a flock blew out a wheaten here or there, but people are acting like it is some horrifying thing that they have no control over and are being duped by, and I am just pointing out how they can weed out their wheaten carriers out of their flock in a single month, not "years" later. I'm not advocating culling all wheaten "carriers" from CBM flocks, because me, I'm just not that much of a militant purist. I am just pointing out ways and means for people that are.

 

[drom]

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Well, I don't think it's quite as simple as you are describing. When people talk about this they they say the lines will throw a Wheaten every now and then. I don't really think that is quite what they mean. It's not like a perfect little Wheatie will pop out every now and then. What you end up with is a bird that isn't really a Wheaten and isn't really a BC. And, if you keep using those birds in your breeding flock you won't have BCs anymore. And you wont have Wheatens either. You will have mutts.(at least this is my understanding) And if that is what you want, that's fine I suppose. But people who are breeding BCs are doing it because they like the variety and the characteristics of the variety. They don't want something else. They want BCs.

 

[drom]

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I totally agree with what you are saying about people acting like this is the most alarming horrible thing that has ever happened.

One of the really sharp people on the MBOA forum, Jeff, said the same thing you are saying, that you can get it out of your BC stock without that much trouble.

 

[onthespot]

See?!!! Even a stopped clock is right twice a day!