Marans Thread for Posting Pics of Your Eggs, Chicks and Chickens

[Krys109uk]

In the original French, the legs of the BC SHOULD be varying shades of gray.

I've been looking at that again. As I'm sure you know, no language can be translated directly word for word & certain sentences need to be interpreted as well as translated. As I said earlier, I consider I speak French well enough to get by in France, or to read a book, but am not fluent.
The phrase in question "ils sont gris plus ou moins foncés" directly translates into "they are grey, more or less dark" (with more or less meaning to a greater or lesser degree)..
I notice the phrase is used again in exactly the same way with regard to nail colour. "Ongles blancs ou corne plus ou moins foncée" that directly translates to "Nails white or horn more or less dark", which does not make sense if one takes it to mean more or less dark because they've just said they can be white. In that context they must mean "can be light or dark".

That said ER birds do not often have competely light legs & I don't know whether it is possible for a black E bird. But whatever the correct meaning the French site does not mention any colour being or not being preferred.

From looking at the English translation it is obvious that it has been translated by someone like me who speaks the other language well enough but not by someone who is truly bi-lingual.​

 

[amazondoc]

We've got you, a French Canadian, and an English speaking French man all working on retranslating the original French now, so hopefully we will have a better idea of the true intentions of the French in the not-too-distant future. Translation is certainly NOT an exact science, so I look forward to the differing interpretations from each translation.

 

[drom]

Well, this is the babblefish translation:

emplumés, of color rosy white for all the varieties save in the hen plain black and coppered black where they are gray more or less dark. 4 long and quite separate fingers of which l' external is sometimes emplumé. White nails or more or less dark horn.

 

[Krys109uk]

emplumés, of color rosy white for all the varieties save in the hen plain black and coppered black where they are gray more or less dark. 4 long and quite separate fingers of which l' external is sometimes emplumé. White nails or more or less dark horn.

LOL it will be interesting to the different versions.
I made that one....
"medium feathered or slightly feathered, of pink white colour for all the varieties except with the black & the copper black where they are grey, can be light or dark. Four digits, long & well separated, of which the outside is sometimes feathered. Nails white or horn, can be light or dark."

It ought to be particularly easy for the French Canadian person as I expect they are equally comfortable speaking either language. I used to live in Wales where my children became bi-lingual Englsh/Welsh. They were equally at home with either language.​

 

[drom]

and, in the section for the variety, when they discuss excess black in hens they state that it's easier to correct the color in roosters with excess black and much more difficult to correct a line with hens that display too much black and for this reason they accept the hens with light and dark grey legs.

Again the translation below is from babblefish.

"in the same line, it is often easier to control excesses of black in the cocks than in hens. Generally, the cocks have the colors of the legs, the eyes and the plumage (including the bouquet d' ear) less dark than those of corresponding hens of the same blood. C' is for this reason that, very precisely, the standard admits the more or less dark legs in connection with hens."

They are definitely saying it is normal for the roosters to have lighter legs and they do picture some Brown red roosters with very light legs. In fact, the roosters pictured on this page don't really have light gray or slate looking legs at all to me. I'm not saying it is right or wrong for ER type birds. I'm just saying this is what I am seeing at the site:

http://marans-club.perso.neuf.fr/ncui.htm#ncui

you can also navigate to
Les Varietes and then click on
Variété Noir-cuivré

 

[drom]

Quote:
LOL it will be interesting to the different versions.
I made that one....
"medium feathered or slightly feathered, of pink white colour for all the varieties except with the black & the copper black where they are grey, can be light or dark. Four digits, long & well separated, of which the outside is sometimes feathered. Nails white or horn, can be light or dark."

Well, for me I think the key to that sentence might be the meaning of the word 'la poule". Google translator, translates the word la poule as "chicken" not "hen" as babblefish does. But, I believe la poule does mean hen, doesn't it?

Anyway, I had always understood that to mean they were saying that the light and dark grey legs are excepted with the hens.

 

[lildinkem]

Instead of everyone here guessing what the FRENCH standard should be. It will be nice to see the day when someone can point to a picture of a bird at a show that did well. I'd love to see what those of you call quality have. Show some pics. That is what the thread is for, SHOW US! Show us the perfect Black Copper. I am curious, I have 10 cockerels/Roo's. The interpretation of the standard, to me, seems vary vague. I'd like to see the ideal perfection of the French Standard inorder to use as a guide. Then I can do a better job of pairing off my birds for a breeding program. thank you.

 

[Krys109uk]

I believe la poule does mean hen, doesn't it?

Just to be difficult "poule" means both chicken & hen.

I think the males with lighter legs on the French site, most likely have dusky outer pigment; I think this would be most usual for ER birds.
In France, most if the ER related birds I brought back (to UK) had grey legs. We brought back a lot of birds. The French breeders we purchased from, were Marans Club de France members & were recommended by Serge Deprez, who was, at the time, the club president.

As a matter of interest, at that time (2003-2004), there was also a rival French Marans Club called, if my memory serves, the "National Marans Club"​

 

[Krys109uk]

Instead of everyone here guessing what the FRENCH standard should be.

We're not "guessing" what the French Standard ought to be. We're trying to translate it. While I speak French passably well, I do not spend much time, when with relatives in France, talking about parts of chickens.

It is important to have an accurate translation of the French standard. How could we breed to a standard if we cannot be certain what it requires?

It is easy enough to look at general type. The birds in the photos of the Marans Club de France are pretty good examples with which to compare.

Try this link. I know it's in French but I think, if nothing else, the pictures give a good example of type. They might have the same pic on the English translation. I always use the French to keep in practice.

http://marans-club.perso.neuf.fr/silhouet.htm#silhouet​

 

[Germaine_11.20]

Just want to thank all of you again for helping me understand the leg color issues. BCMs are such beautiful birds.