Marek's or just pecked and traumatized?

[mola_mil]

My 3 month old Welsummer, who is one of 3 new chicks that I added to our existing flock of 2 two-year old hens, just turned up not doing well. I've been away for a week, but the babysitter just noticed symptoms yesterday morning. She found this hen on her back. But when she righted her, she ran out into the yard and appeared 'normal'. When I arrived home in the afternoon, she was standing and drooping her wing on her right side. I thought she had a broken wing. She's the smallest hen and definitely at the bottom of pecking order. I picked her up to feed her some treats (dried mealworms) and she tried to poke at my hand, but couldn't get them in her beak. It was 100 degrees here yesterday, so I didn't know if she was having heat stroke or what. Took her to the vet today and vet said no broken wing, but she felt some inflammation in her right knee. But vet also said that lack of aim with food and paralysis are also symptoms of Marek's.

Vet gave her fluid and a pain reliever and I've been feeding her from a dropper as well as giving her plumbs from my yard- she loves those and will actually eat them (not too much aim required).

I purchased these 3 new chicks from efoul.com - they were sent the day they were hatched, and I paid extra to get them vaccinated. The two other hens are a Maran and a Light Brahma and neither are showing any signs of illness. My original two hens, a Polish Banta and a Sicilian Buttercup also seem to be just fine. We did not put the new chicks with the older ones until they were 6 weeks old, though we did at 4 weeks let the babies have short, supervised field trips in our backyard where the older girls free range during the day. Since fully integrating the little ones, this Welsummer (Chacha) is definitely the smallest and at the bottom of the pecking order, so I was thinking that perhaps she got pecked off the roosting bar and she hurt herself???

My questions for you all are:
1) Has anyone ever had a hen with these symptoms and it wasn't Marek's?
2) If my other hens (all have been vaccinated at hatchery) aren't showing symptoms now, are they in the clear?
3) How common is it for vaccinated hens to develop Marek's?
4) If one or more laying hen does develop Marek's, is it safe to eat their eggs?
5) Will this destroy all my hens if it's Marek's?

I will appreciate any advice/info anyone can offer. I love these hens and have invested so much energy and time into them, and I would hate to lose them or see them suffer!!

Thanks!

 

[realsis]

I have a hen that had lack of aim and neck twisting that turned out to be wry neck. Th birds that are vaccinated and have been exposed to Marek's but are not showing symptoms are considered carrier's now . even though they may never Ever become sick themselves they CAN still spread the disease to
other birds. The stats show 6% of vaccinated birds
acquire
Marek's
Yes its safe to eat the eggs.no its not likely that your
whole flock will be disyroyed however they will be considered carriers. best of luck. Hope this helps

 

[Haunted55]

My 3 month old Welsummer, who is one of 3 new chicks that I added to our existing flock of 2 two-year old hens, just turned up not doing well. I've been away for a week, but the babysitter just noticed symptoms yesterday morning. She found this hen on her back. But when she righted her, she ran out into the yard and appeared 'normal'. When I arrived home in the afternoon, she was standing and drooping her wing on her right side. I thought she had a broken wing. She's the smallest hen and definitely at the bottom of pecking order. I picked her up to feed her some treats (dried mealworms) and she tried to poke at my hand, but couldn't get them in her beak. It was 100 degrees here yesterday, so I didn't know if she was having heat stroke or what. Took her to the vet today and vet said no broken wing, but she felt some inflammation in her right knee. But vet also said that lack of aim with food and paralysis are also symptoms of Marek's.

Vet gave her fluid and a pain reliever and I've been feeding her from a dropper as well as giving her plumbs from my yard- she loves those and will actually eat them (not too much aim required).

I purchased these 3 new chicks from efoul.com - they were sent the day they were hatched, and I paid extra to get them vaccinated. The two other hens are a Maran and a Light Brahma and neither are showing any signs of illness. My original two hens, a Polish Banta and a Sicilian Buttercup also seem to be just fine. We did not put the new chicks with the older ones until they were 6 weeks old, though we did at 4 weeks let the babies have short, supervised field trips in our backyard where the older girls free range during the day. Since fully integrating the little ones, this Welsummer (Chacha) is definitely the smallest and at the bottom of the pecking order, so I was thinking that perhaps she got pecked off the roosting bar and she hurt herself???

My questions for you all are:
1) Has anyone ever had a hen with these symptoms and it wasn't Marek's?
2) If my other hens (all have been vaccinated at hatchery) aren't showing symptoms now, are they in the clear?
3) How common is it for vaccinated hens to develop Marek's?
4) If one or more laying hen does develop Marek's, is it safe to eat their eggs?
5) Will this destroy all my hens if it's Marek's?

I will appreciate any advice/info anyone can offer. I love these hens and have invested so much energy and time into them, and I would hate to lose them or see them suffer!!

Thanks!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/793176/so-you-think-you-have-mareks#post_11427039

More info is needed here. You talk about her aim...are you saying she is blind? Is she having trouble just moving her neck and head properly? Can you do some pictures. I would especially like to see her eyes up close. Yes, Marek's can cause problems with paralysis, but with the joints? There are a couple of respiratory diseases that can do that as well as vitamin deficiencies. Marek's .....not so much. Marek's can attack the nervous system, the skin the eyes, not the bones. If the Vet is saying some kind of arthritis, which is what it sounds like, I'd be looking for something else. With all of the different ways my birds have died with Marek's, this isn't one of them. Injury with your hen? Yes it could be, caused by a fall or being forced off the roost? Yep. Fall off the roost because of Marek's? I suppose it could happen, but my first thought is no. Birds with Marek's know they are not functioning at 100% and protect themselves accordingly. Sleeping on the floor, in a nest box, they will seek a place they can be safe. the Vet giving her fluid leads me to believe it may very well have has something to do with the heat. Maybe they didn't have enough water, or it was some place she thought to far to get to. I would think this before Marek's.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/741957/not-an-emergency-mareks-in-the-flock/480#post_11565663

Here's another link for you. Read through this thread and you will see all kinds of different manifestations of Marek's.If you are still unsure or want a more definative answer, you can have blood drawn and sent to the people i am linking to below.
http://tvmdl.tamu.edu/tests_service...sease-(PCR)&unit_id=1187&unit_effdt=02-JUN-10

 

[Haunted55]

I have a hen that had lack of aim and neck twisting that turned out to be wry neck. Th birds that are vaccinated and have been exposed to Marek's but are not showing symptoms are considered carrier's now . even though they may never Ever become sick themselves they CAN still spread the disease to
other birds. The stats show 6% of vaccinated birds
acquire
Marek's
Yes its safe to eat the eggs.no its not likely that your
whole flock will be disyroyed however they will be considered carriers. best of luck. Hope this helps

Actually Realsis, vaccinated birds are not, do not, become carriers of this disease. The only way that would happen is if they became infected with a mutation their vaccination couldn't handle. Then they could become carriers because they are infected with this disease and will show all signs and symptoms. Herpes virus live in the spinal cord/fluid. Building a resistance to this disease whether vaccinated or not doesn't make them carriers, nor does being exposed and actually getting the disease. If this were the case, every single bird in the world would be a carrier and pretty soon, there would be no birds, wild or domestic. Even if exposed to Marek's, having some of the markers in their blood and brain chemistry doesn't make them a carrier. Birds vaccinated also have some of these markers but they do not spread the disease.

The stats currently actually show a 25% overall contraction of a form of this disease in spite of the vaccine. Do these birds have Marek's? Not in my mind. They may have some of the chemical markers but since they do not have the death rate, the lesions, the paralysis, they do not have Marek's. Can they pass these markers on to their young? Yes, they can and it is usually as a resistance to the actual full blown disease.

Please....to comment on Marek's you need all of the facts about the disease and it is constantly changing. To help someone you need to be able to ask the right questions, lead them to the right information and finally let them know that Marek's isn't the end of the road. I am not saying you are not helping. What I am saying is the cry of Marek's scares the crap out of most people and needs to be done with care. Marek's is serious business as anyone who has it in their flock can attest to.

 

[seminolewind]

My 3 month old Welsummer, who is one of 3 new chicks that I added to our existing flock of 2 two-year old hens, just turned up not doing well. I've been away for a week, but the babysitter just noticed symptoms yesterday morning. She found this hen on her back. But when she righted her, she ran out into the yard and appeared 'normal'. When I arrived home in the afternoon, she was standing and drooping her wing on her right side. I thought she had a broken wing. She's the smallest hen and definitely at the bottom of pecking order. I picked her up to feed her some treats (dried mealworms) and she tried to poke at my hand, but couldn't get them in her beak. It was 100 degrees here yesterday, so I didn't know if she was having heat stroke or what. Took her to the vet today and vet said no broken wing, but she felt some inflammation in her right knee. But vet also said that lack of aim with food and paralysis are also symptoms of Marek's.

Vet gave her fluid and a pain reliever and I've been feeding her from a dropper as well as giving her plumbs from my yard- she loves those and will actually eat them (not too much aim required).

I purchased these 3 new chicks from efoul.com - they were sent the day they were hatched, and I paid extra to get them vaccinated. The two other hens are a Maran and a Light Brahma and neither are showing any signs of illness. My original two hens, a Polish Banta and a Sicilian Buttercup also seem to be just fine. We did not put the new chicks with the older ones until they were 6 weeks old, though we did at 4 weeks let the babies have short, supervised field trips in our backyard where the older girls free range during the day. Since fully integrating the little ones, this Welsummer (Chacha) is definitely the smallest and at the bottom of the pecking order, so I was thinking that perhaps she got pecked off the roosting bar and she hurt herself???

My questions for you all are:
1) Has anyone ever had a hen with these symptoms and it wasn't Marek's?
2) If my other hens (all have been vaccinated at hatchery) aren't showing symptoms now, are they in the clear?
3) How common is it for vaccinated hens to develop Marek's?
4) If one or more laying hen does develop Marek's, is it safe to eat their eggs?
5) Will this destroy all my hens if it's Marek's?

I will appreciate any advice/info anyone can offer. I love these hens and have invested so much energy and time into them, and I would hate to lose them or see them suffer!!

Thanks!

Here's my interpretation:
1. No.
2. Probably
3.I heard 10%.
4. eggs are safe. However, a Marek's symptomatic bird will most likely not lay eggs.
5. No.

Mola, it could be a heat stroke. I'd keep her cool and hydrated and see if she improves. You did the right thing getting vaccinated chicks. With your other chicks, it's hit and miss. They may or may not become symptomatic.

On #1, there's the classic signs that you read about, then there's all the other symptoms and/or variances. I had a vaccinated hen have paralysis for 6 weeks in all till she was on her own again.

ANY bird that is exposed to a bird that carries Marek's will be a carrier, even if neither get sick.

A day old vaccinated chick will not be a Marek's carrier FRom the vaccination, but, vaccinated or not, if they Have contact with a bird who has Marek's, they will be carriers as well. Even if neither gets sick

The vaccination protects against the side effects. No one has protection from carrying the virus around.

In the 70's there was a Marek's crisis , and hatcheries had to learn that the vaccine alone will not be enough. They would have to practice other things as well. All in All out. Disinfect between batches. That's what helps the vaccination do it's job.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
I think there's a lot of information out there,some is correct, some is not correct, some has changed, or needs to be updated, some is wishful thinking, and some info is missing pieces of the whole picture. I think what all of us need to do is document where the information came from. Even if for yourself.

I think that Haunted, Casportpony and I (and others) try to pass on valid information to help people. Realsis , you do this too. I think we all have realized there is life after Marek's. I know I was totally shattered when I realized my birds had Marek's. 90% of my information comes from a huge reference book called "Diseases of Poultry" , Chief Editor, w.m. Saif. It's got hundreds of contributions by researchers. I'm surprised that Marek's has so many researchers out there. More than I expected. Even on Plum Island!

I think we all do a good thing, too, in answering worried people with "most likely" , or try other things to make sure. I try to get a history as well. Like if all their chicks came at the same time straight from a hatchery and they never had chicks, I would not think whatever they had was Marek's. But sometimes important information gets left out, like they have a rescued chicken, or a hen from a friend. It's all important.

 

[seminolewind]

Gosh, and I rambling or what?

 

[Haunted55]

Gosh, and I rambling or what?

Nope, I don't think so at all. You, me, Casportpony, Nambroth and all the others....we each bring something different to the table with our experiences with this miserable disease. It hits you one way, Casport another and me in a totally different manner. All Marek's, all the same, but different. Our research and connections are diverse as well. Researchers, hatchery owners, field Vets for the pharmaceutical companies as well as any referrence material and periodicals we can get our hands on....and still we learn something new everyday. We all know what we know and in different situations, can actually help someone new to the 'club'.

 

[seminolewind]

True. It's amazing how much we've put together. It does help with the sadness and helplessness knowing you're not alone and it feels real good to help someone else.

 

[Haunted55]

True. It's amazing how much we've put together. It does help with the sadness and helplessness knowing you're not alone and it feels real good to help someone else.

Truth! And here's another one...sadly I am losing my bookmarks! This is driving me nuts and let's face it...short trip, lol! Seriously, I saved something to my favorties yesterday, double check it was there and this evening it's not. Umm, okay...so where'd it go? No viruses, no malware, nothing, but the links aren't there. Even did a root scan...nothin'.