Marek's Vaccination?

[feather13]

This thread:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/
Indicates three weeks. I have read other places at least one week. That’s what I’m doing. No way I can separate for three! Maybe two. If you’ve not been washing up between groups though, could be moot since it’s carried in their dander which gets everywhere.

Thank you for your reply! How did your integration go?

Our chicks are already 7 weeks old and I've been careful to wash my hands, etc. when I'm in the coop with the adult, Marek's exposed hens. I'm wondering if it would be ok to integrate them in a few weeks (especially since the hen's dander must be flying around anyway). The chicks are outgrowing their coop and run really quickly, but I also don't want to risk them contracting Marek's tumors and dying since that was such a sad and traumatic experience last time.

I've read the post you shared (thank you!), but there's so much conflicting information out there on BYC, as well as other websites, and that makes it hard to know what the responsible thing to do is.

 

[ladybrasa]

Thank you for your reply! How did your integration go?

Heh, well hasn’t happened yet. May wait another few days/week. To clarify, this would be mixing with older chicks in another brooder. So far the older ones have been very accepting of new chicks (because ‘mama’ is failing chicken math). I have to move some of the oldest outside though. Almost finished readying the coop. So the ones I hatched (week old on Friday) can stay isolated for a little longer. They haven’t figured out how to jump out ... yet.

 

[Sonya9]

Sorry to crash this conversation, but I also have a Marek's-related question and don't want to replicate all the really helpful information you've all posted here in another thread. We've had Marek's in our flock due to an unethical local hatchery that killed most of our flock. We currently have 3 hens and 12 7-week-old vaccinated chicks from McMurray's.

There is so much information on Marek's on the Internet generally and in lots of helpful forums here, but some of the advice is confusing (at least to me) or conflicting.

Here's my question: When can we integrate our birds? The chicks have outgrown their coop, so free range in the yard during the day with supervision. The hens are about 100 feet downwind from them in a much larger coop and run (in a small orchard).

I apologize if I'm asking a redundant question, but any advice you can give would be appreciated. Thank you for your time!

Since you have infected birds IMO you need to be super careful with the integration because the vaccine is NOT 100% effective and they have probably been exposed before it took effect.

Be sure those chicks have an easy integration as the constant social stress caused by a rough integration is the biggest trigger for a Mareks outbreak. Play it safe and assume they have been exposed. I have had Mareks in my flock for 6 years and only use hens that raise chicks in the flock to avoid integration entirely.

Someone here recently posted that they integrate their chicks by putting a fence/barrier up in the run that allows the chicks to go under and visit the older birds, but run back behind it for protection.

That sounds like an extremely clever idea and one you might want to adopt especially in your situation. Of course make sure the chicks have food and water on their side of the barrier.

 

[Folly's place]

I have both vaccinated birds from hatcheries, who live in our garage, isolated from our flock, for over two weeks, and unvaccinated birds hatched here, who are never in the garage. I necropsy birds who die on the farm, unless it's a predator attack, and am paranoid about biosecurity, and don't believe that we have Marek's disease here.
We are blessed that no near neighbors have chickens, especially 'random source' chickens. We only buy chicks from good hatcheries, never older birds from anyone. We don't show our birds.
When going to a show, auction, or where ever that includes chickens, once home, everything, shoes on up, gets washed immediately.
We have shoes and boots that are only worn here on the farm, nowhere else.
If Marek's disease ever reaches our farm, no birds will leave, and management will have to change, and tears will be shed.
Mary

 

[feather13]

Since you have infected birds IMO you need to be super careful with the integration because the vaccine is NOT 100% effective and they have probably been exposed before it took effect.

Be sure those chicks have an easy integration as the constant social stress caused by a rough integration is the biggest trigger for a Mareks outbreak. Play it safe and assume they have been exposed. I have had Mareks in my flock for 6 years and only use hens that raise chicks in the flock to avoid integration entirely.

Someone here recently posted that they integrate their chicks by putting a fence/barrier up in the run that allows the chicks to go under and visit the older birds, but run back behind it for protection.

That sounds like an extremely clever idea and one you might want to adopt especially in your situation. Of course make sure the chicks have food and water on their side of the barrier.

Thank you so much for your response and I'm really sorry you have Marek's in your flock What a truly terrible disease. Honestly, I don't know if I would have started raising chickens if I had known what a devastating and contagious disease it is.

Thanks, too, for the advice about integration. We're still a few weeks away from a coop remodel/overhaul, but will make a fence so the chicks can choose how they want to socialize with the hens. We only have three hens and they are quite sweet, but introducing chicks sometimes brings meanness out in chickens, I've found.

 

[feather13]

I have both vaccinated birds from hatcheries, who live in our garage, isolated from our flock, for over two weeks, and unvaccinated birds hatched here, who are never in the garage. I necropsy birds who die on the farm, unless it's a predator attack, and am paranoid about biosecurity, and don't believe that we have Marek's disease here.
We are blessed that no near neighbors have chickens, especially 'random source' chickens. We only buy chicks from good hatcheries, never older birds from anyone. We don't show our birds.
When going to a show, auction, or where ever that includes chickens, once home, everything, shoes on up, gets washed immediately.
We have shoes and boots that are only worn here on the farm, nowhere else.
If Marek's disease ever reaches our farm, no birds will leave, and management will have to change, and tears will be shed.
Mary

Thanks for your reply, Mary. I hope you never get Marek's. It's really awful and such a nightmare. We've always been very careful about coop-only shoes, disinfecting the coop and ourselves, etc. We never go near anyone else's chickens and we don't sell or show chickens. But we are 99.9% sure we got Marek's-infected chicks from a local hatchery because we saw many reviews on their Yelp page complaining that they had sold people chicks that died of Marek's (unfortunately, we read the reviews afterwards). Apparently Marek's is quite common in southern California where we live.

I think that if these chicks get Marek's, too, we will just wait until the three hens eventually die (although I imagine it will be quite sad when there's only one left and she has no flock-mates) and then retire from having chickens as pets.

 

[Folly's place]

I'd heard that Fayoumis are more resistant than others; has that been true for your flock?
Ducks, geese, and turkeys would work for you instead of chickens, I can see that this would be sad to have to cope with.
Mary

 

[Sonya9]

If Marek's disease ever reaches our farm, no birds will leave, and management will have to change, and tears will be shed.

@feather13

Honestly depending on the strain Mareks isn't that bad. I got it shortly after starting the flock (a chick from an NPIP certified breeder). The first year I did lose some birds, mostly adolescents I tried to integrate into the flock, but have not had a bird get sick in FIVE YEARS.

I am just very mindful of stress levels, if a bird is injured or sick I dose that bird with anti-herpes meds (which are very cheap) and I don't introduce chicks without a mother hen. My birds live completely normal lives, the Buff Orp is 7 or 8 years old and I have had 8 year old bantams. Keep in mind it is typically non-lethal in wild bird populations, and show breeders have told me they also breed for resistance (and they almost certainly have it too, just never see signs).

Though the Marek's vaccine is enabling much more lethal strains to spread. Sadly the vaccine is only making it much much worse whereas if people bred for RESISTANCE chicken populations would become resistant to it and it would rarely become a problem. Course chickens are "disposable" and breeding for resistance affects the profit margins and inconveniences people so virtually no one bothers.

 

[Folly's place]

Breeding for resistance is the only breeding plan possible if the disease is in a flock. It means producing chicks, at least at first, who will die of the disease's effects at young ages, nothing that looks attractive to me. I'd rather avoid the disease if at all possible in the first place, and have birds who can survive in my existing flock if it ever appears here.
One choice, after the fact, and another choice, to attempt to avoid it in the first place.
Mary

 

[feather13]

I'd heard that Fayoumis are more resistant than others; has that been true for your flock?
Ducks, geese, and turkeys would work for you instead of chickens, I can see that this would be sad to have to cope with.
Mary

Breeding for resistance is the only breeding plan possible if the disease is in a flock. It means producing chicks, at least at first, who will die of the disease's effects at young ages, nothing that looks attractive to me. I'd rather avoid the disease if at all possible in the first place, and have birds who can survive in my existing flock if it ever appears here.
One choice, after the fact, and another choice, to attempt to avoid it in the first place.
Mary

@Folly's place : Thanks for your post. Yes, absolutely best to avoid Marek's at all costs. Hopefully it is not prevalent in your area. We have never raised chicks from eggs, but if our Crevecoeur rooster lives and the neighbors don't complain about his noise, hopefully we can have chicks down the line that are resistant to this disease.

Our two Fayoumis are only 7 weeks old, so we don't know yet if they're Marek's-resistant. They are beautiful, flighty, loud (they make a piercing screech), only like each other, and are independent (so lots of +++s and ---s depending on what you want in a chicken LOL).