Mareks

[Momma_Bear]

Following....

Sorry you are going through this.

Hopefully you find something out soon. If it isn't Mareks, hopefully it is something treatable.

Thank you! I’m leading more towards enteritis. That’s what it sounds like. Vet stated that there was mucus and inflammation. Along with belly of food.

 

[microchick]

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to respond to this. I've been fighting the flu for over two weeks now. The medicine that I take for inflammatory arthritis makes me super susceptible to infections and unable to take a flu shot so it was quite an experience. I'm just now trying to catch up with things.

I hate to hear that you are still having trouble with bird loss and hate it even more that you still suspect that you are dealing with Marek's. There really isn't an easy answer to your question of 'getting rid of Marek's' because you really can't get rid of Marek's once you have an outbreak. You have to understand that science believes that Marek's is so prevalent that if you test birds from every flock in America you will discover that every flock has been exposed at some time. The trick is that if birds don't die from the disease, it is because they are resistant to it.

I'm going to use my flock of Buff Orpingtons and Welsummers as an example here. I had 22 laying hens and 6 roosters at one point. That number went up to over 40 birds with hens brooding chicks for me. Right now I have 11 5 year old hens and 2 roosters left. These birds at this point are my resistant birds and are doing well. Test any one of them though and they will come up positive for Marek's exposure as will birds from my bantam flock.

Now you have to look at where Marek's comes from. I asked the same questions you are asking in the beginning. Seems logical that if you cull them all and start over you can avoid the virus.

DING DING DING DING! RED ALERT! WRONG!

Marek's disease is airborne and can carry up to 5 miles on the wind. It is also transmittable via wild birds and via contact with the virus being carried in by shoes and clothing.

Been to the feed store? Chances are Farmer Brown has been too and Farmer Brown just tossed two dead chickens on the compost pile that he found dead that morning.......from Marek's. Farmer Brown walking through his property and then into the feed store has just spread the virus from his flock to potentially every flock whose owner has just went to the feed store to buy layer pellets.

Say that you decide to cull all of your birds and get new birds to replace them. How are you going to keep them away from wild birds? It can be done but now you have wild birds that are populating your property and every time they shake out their feathers they are reinfecting your property with whatever diseases that they are carrying on their dander including Marek's.

That pretty little robin sitting on your run fence just flew over from Farmer Brown's farm. Remember farmer Brown just had two birds tossed on the compost pile that succumbed to Marek's disease only Farmer Brown doesn't know that because if you have live stock you are going to eventually have dead stock.

Are you starting to get the picture here? No matter what you do no matter how careful you are you cannot stop this virus from coming onto your property.

Now back to my flock. I have 11 resistant hens and two roosters one of which is showing signs of having some sort of joint inflammation and the other that is showing no signs of the disease. I was told by somebody who knows this disease, a veterinarian scientist at the University of Missouri, that those are the birds that I need to be breeding to continue on my flock and breed resistant birds.

To cull birds that are showing no signs of the disease is basically tossing out the baby with the dirty bath water.

I know it is hard sitting back and watching birds die from this disease. At one point I was either finding a dead bird or culling a dying bird at the rate of one to two a week. I was pretty depressed by the whole situation but came to realize that I just needed to sit back and ride this out.

You cannot rid your property of this disease once it is there. Are you prepared to scrape off the top 6 inches of soil from every inch of your property? Are you prepared to burn every out building that has ever had a wild bird roost in it or are you prepared to throw a net over your entire property to keep wild birds out...no wait, that won't work, if a wild bird flies over your property that is carrying Marek's and it poops in flight and that poop lands on your newly sanitized property you are now reinfected.

I hope you are starting to see the big picture here concerning how difficult it is to remove Marek's from your property. Way much more work than any average chicken owner will want to do.

So this should be the plan.

DO NOTHING. Seriously. You are still going to lose a few more birds but the birds that survive this outbreak if it is indeed Marek's disease are going to be worth their weight in gold. Even if you have some other disease in your flock the birds that survive it are going to be fantastic, strong birds to breed for replacement birds.

What you should be doing is doing your best to keep the remaining birds healthy. Vitamins, probiotics. The best feed you can afford and practice the best biosecurity that you can.

I know what I'm asking is hard. It is agonizing to hold a beloved rooster or hen in your lap that is gasping for breath, pet them, tell them how much you love them and appreciate all the eggs the hen has given you or all the times that the rooster has made you laugh and then put them down and put a bullet in their heads. I've shed buckets of tears and agonized over every loss until I came to realize that if you have chickens you are going to have losses, either from disease or from predation. If you have Marek's well, you are going to have more losses than you counted on but you can overcome this infestation and have chickens left to enjoy.

I too thought about doing a 100% cull but thanks to that Doctor at Mizzou that told me not to do that I didn't. He told me I have a few birds left but those birds were vital to the survival of my flock and he was oh so right.

I commend you for sending off a dead bird to be tested and your attitude of 'I'm going to lick this' is just the attitude that you need but please don't cull your healthy birds just to bring in more birds that will probably even if vaccinated suffer a loss or more because you cannot realistically remove Marek's from your property.

I'm sorry for the long post but no post concerning surviving Marek's can be done in a few sentences.

Hang on. It does get better. Not great, but better.

 

[Cragg Klefor]

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to respond to this. I've been fighting the flu for over two weeks now. The medicine that I take for inflammatory arthritis makes me super susceptible to infections and unable to take a flu shot so it was quite an experience. I'm just now trying to catch up with things.

I hate to hear that you are still having trouble with bird loss and hate it even more that you still suspect that you are dealing with Marek's. There really isn't an easy answer to your question of 'getting rid of Marek's' because you really can't get rid of Marek's once you have an outbreak. You have to understand that science believes that Marek's is so prevalent that if you test birds from every flock in America you will discover that every flock has been exposed at some time. The trick is that if birds don't die from the disease, it is because they are resistant to it.

I'm going to use my flock of Buff Orpingtons and Welsummers as an example here. I had 22 laying hens and 6 roosters at one point. That number went up to over 40 birds with hens brooding chicks for me. Right now I have 11 5 year old hens and 2 roosters left. These birds at this point are my resistant birds and are doing well. Test any one of them though and they will come up positive for Marek's exposure as will birds from my bantam flock.

Now you have to look at where Marek's comes from. I asked the same questions you are asking in the beginning. Seems logical that if you cull them all and start over you can avoid the virus.

DING DING DING DING! RED ALERT! WRONG!

Marek's disease is airborne and can carry up to 5 miles on the wind. It is also transmittable via wild birds and via contact with the virus being carried in by shoes and clothing.

Been to the feed store? Chances are Farmer Brown has been too and Farmer Brown just tossed two dead chickens on the compost pile that he found dead that morning.......from Marek's. Farmer Brown walking through his property and then into the feed store has just spread the virus from his flock to potentially every flock whose owner has just went to the feed store to buy layer pellets.

Say that you decide to cull all of your birds and get new birds to replace them. How are you going to keep them away from wild birds? It can be done but now you have wild birds that are populating your property and every time they shake out their feathers they are reinfecting your property with whatever diseases that they are carrying on their dander including Marek's.

That pretty little robin sitting on your run fence just flew over from Farmer Brown's farm. Remember farmer Brown just had two birds tossed on the compost pile that succumbed to Marek's disease only Farmer Brown doesn't know that because if you have live stock you are going to eventually have dead stock.

Are you starting to get the picture here? No matter what you do no matter how careful you are you cannot stop this virus from coming onto your property.

Now back to my flock. I have 11 resistant hens and two roosters one of which is showing signs of having some sort of joint inflammation and the other that is showing no signs of the disease. I was told by somebody who knows this disease, a veterinarian scientist at the University of Missouri, that those are the birds that I need to be breeding to continue on my flock and breed resistant birds.

To cull birds that are showing no signs of the disease is basically tossing out the baby with the dirty bath water.

I know it is hard sitting back and watching birds die from this disease. At one point I was either finding a dead bird or culling a dying bird at the rate of one to two a week. I was pretty depressed by the whole situation but came to realize that I just needed to sit back and ride this out.

You cannot rid your property of this disease once it is there. Are you prepared to scrape off the top 6 inches of soil from every inch of your property? Are you prepared to burn every out building that has ever had a wild bird roost in it or are you prepared to throw a net over your entire property to keep wild birds out...no wait, that won't work, if a wild bird flies over your property that is carrying Marek's and it poops in flight and that poop lands on your newly sanitized property you are now reinfected.

I hope you are starting to see the big picture here concerning how difficult it is to remove Marek's from your property. Way much more work than any average chicken owner will want to do.

So this should be the plan.

DO NOTHING. Seriously. You are still going to lose a few more birds but the birds that survive this outbreak if it is indeed Marek's disease are going to be worth their weight in gold. Even if you have some other disease in your flock the birds that survive it are going to be fantastic, strong birds to breed for replacement birds.

What you should be doing is doing your best to keep the remaining birds healthy. Vitamins, probiotics. The best feed you can afford and practice the best biosecurity that you can.

I know what I'm asking is hard. It is agonizing to hold a beloved rooster or hen in your lap that is gasping for breath, pet them, tell them how much you love them and appreciate all the eggs the hen has given you or all the times that the rooster has made you laugh and then put them down and put a bullet in their heads. I've shed buckets of tears and agonized over every loss until I came to realize that if you have chickens you are going to have losses, either from disease or from predation. If you have Marek's well, you are going to have more losses than you counted on but you can overcome this infestation and have chickens left to enjoy.

I too thought about doing a 100% cull but thanks to that Doctor at Mizzou that told me not to do that I didn't. He told me I have a few birds left but those birds were vital to the survival of my flock and he was oh so right.

I commend you for sending off a dead bird to be tested and your attitude of 'I'm going to lick this' is just the attitude that you need but please don't cull your healthy birds just to bring in more birds that will probably even if vaccinated suffer a loss or more because you cannot realistically remove Marek's from your property.

I'm sorry for the long post but no post concerning surviving Marek's can be done in a few sentences.

Hang on. It does get better. Not great, but better.

What a great post!

 

[microchick]

Thanks @Cragg Klefor

I want to add that anyone who is dealing with Marek's in their flock needs to consider adding birds to their flocks that are Marek's resistant. Naked Necks and Egyptian Fayoumis are two that come to mind. @ronott1 gave me a list of others at one point. Maybe he will pipe in with the rest of the list and share his battle with Marek's with the OP also.

Another thought is to add birds from local flocks to the existing flock. Chicks from hatching eggs if possible. The reason I suggest that is that I discovered that my bantam crosses, which come from an Amish farm around the corner from where our farm is, seem to have a natural resistance to the strain of Marek's that is on our property. I have still lost three birds to Marek's from that flock but when you compare a loss of three birds out of 48 to a loss of 2/3rds of a flock of 40+ Buff O's and Welly's and you begin to see a pattern forming.

I have one Fayoumi hen now and am expecting 6 more chicks the first week in April. I'm hoping to cross the Fayoumi hens and roosters with my surviving birds to breed a cross breed bird with greater natural resistance to the disease.

You can fight this. It takes time, patience, and tears but it can be done. You just have to commit yourself to being in the fight for the long haul.

 

[Harley Chick]

Great answer!!!!!

I just lost one of my girls day before Thanksgiving. I had her euthanized and sent for a necropsy. Results came back with Mareks (tumor on her sciatica nerve). She was the youngest and such a sweet girl, she was the last to be added to the flock, not of the original gang. I cried all the way to the vets office and back. At first I felt foolish for blubbering like a child over a $3 chicken and paying $65 to have her euthanized, but as i told my husband they are my pets, they are what makes me laugh while outside doing yard stuff, I look forward to seeing them in the morning and running around the yard. But anywho, don't cull the rest......give them a chance. I still have 5 girls and they all seem very happy and healthy. I hope it stays that way, but if not I will do what I have to do and continue to have chickens.

 

[microchick]

@Harley Chick, thank you.

The concept of how fast that Marek's disease can spread by airborne infection is really mind boggling.

One day I was standing watching wild birds on our farm and it dawned on me how wild birds can really effectively spread disease.

Two birds are sitting on a wire. Bird one has flown in from an area 5 miles away from our farm. Bird one is carrying Marek's disease in it's dander and infects bird two which is sitting next to it on the wire. Bird two takes off and flies away, landing 6 miles away from where it was sitting with bird one. If you consider our farm ground zero, located at the center of a 5 mile radius, then bird 2 really only needs to fly 2.5 miles away to infect new birds. Even if I consider our farm to be on the edge of a 5 mile radius, then the bird only has to 'cross the road in one direction or fly 6 miles in the other direction to infect new victims.

It's a domino effect. Bird two, now more than 5 miles away from bird one, infects more wild birds and poops in a chicken run. The dominos continue to fall and the infection continues to spread

Today we have wind gusts to 48mph. Every time my chickens shake out their feathers I cringe.

But you can really get an idea of how easily Marek's disease can travel. You also have fly borne virus to consider into the equation.

You simply cannot eradicate the virus from the environment unless you enclose your coop in a bubble with a positive pressure air lock.

Keep in mind that even the big production farms couldn't keep avian influenza out with their high tech bio security.

So where this is all leading to is that you can scrub and sanitize and clean and spray coops to eliminate germs and viruses (it's not going to hurt to keep your birds clean but birds by their very nature are little greeb masters, worse than 2 year olds eating an ice cream cones) but you cannot remove them from the environment around your coop, nor can you really and realistically keep viruses and bacteria out of an area once you have cleaned it.

The best you can do is the best you can do.

 

[microchick]

Great answer!!!!!

I just lost one of my girls day before Thanksgiving. I had her euthanized and sent for a necropsy. Results came back with Mareks (tumor on her sciatica nerve). She was the youngest and such a sweet girl, she was the last to be added to the flock, not of the original gang. I cried all the way to the vets office and back. At first I felt foolish for blubbering like a child over a $3 chicken and paying $65 to have her euthanized, but as i told my husband they are my pets, they are what makes me laugh while outside doing yard stuff, I look forward to seeing them in the morning and running around the yard. But anywho, don't cull the rest......give them a chance. I still have 5 girls and they all seem very happy and healthy. I hope it stays that way, but if not I will do what I have to do and continue to have chickens.

I understand how you feel. I'm a rooster fan. Good thing cause I have about a gazillion of the little heathens. Last summer my last Buff Orpington rooster succumbed to ocular Marek's disease when he went blind in his good eye from a fighting injury. I held him, petted him, cried and had to ask my husband to put him down. I just couldn't do it. He was my pet, the last of my BO roosters to succumb to this terrible disease. I try hard not to make pets out of my birds but it's mission impossible.

Speaking of which, it's time to do pm feeding and watering. Hang in there, Harley. Like I said. it's hard, but not impossible.

 

[FishMtFarm]

@microchick you deserve a medal! You have simply explained something that I have tried to tell people and got slammed and cursed for even suggesting. Amen to you! Resistance to any disease should be bred into chickens and less reliance on vaccinations.

 

[microchick]

Thank you, @FishMtFarm. I am humbled but glad to help. I have been fighting this disease in my flock for 4 years and can only speak from my personal experience and observations....and the 900+ (at least it seemed that way) articles I read about Marek's disease, The vet I talked to at Mizzou stressed the fact that the birds that survived to 4 were resistant. My hens have fared much better than my roosters. My oldest rooster without symptoms is 2.5 years old..I'm not planning to breed him but am seriously considering breeding one of the Fayoumi roosters I am getting in April to my resistant Welsummer hens. They are almost 5 now but still laying. Hopefully they will still be producing a few eggs by next fall that I can hatch in my incubator

I will not breed the Buff Orpington hens that have survived. Butt Os are right up there with Silkies when it comes to Marek's susceptibility. But the Welsummers have held up pretty well.

 

[Cragg Klefor]

Thank you, @fistmtfarm. I am humbled but glad to help. I have been fighting this disease in my flock for 4 years and can only speak from my personal experience and observations....and the 900+ (at least it seemed that way) articles I read about Marek's disease, The vet I talked to at Mizzou stressed the fact that the birds that survived to 4 were resistant. My hens have fared much better than my roosters. My oldest rooster without symptoms is 2.5 years old..I'm not planning to breed him but am seriously considering breeding one of the Fayoumi roosters I am getting in April to my resistant Welsummer hens. They are almost 5 now but still laying. Hopefully they will still be producing a few eggs by next fall that I can hatch in my incubator

I will not breed the Buff Orpington hens that have survived. Butt Os are right up there with Silkies when it comes to Marek's susceptibility. But the Welsummers have held up pretty well.

Microchick would you not put all of the above into an article for people coming on here searching for Marek's? I think so many people assume they must cull their entire flock if there is evidence of Mareks within. This could help people better understand resistance building and therefore not all out such devastating news upon hearing they have lost a bird to Mareks. Just a suggestion.