Maybe cocci, but no blood???

[Erica]

Finally got some meds today. The shipment didn't come in to TS - and going by the looks of their system it's a supplier issue b/c all the ones that came up in their search were either out or very low in stock. I found some powdered Corid and Sulmet at Southern States (for some reason I thought my SIL said she checked there, but they didn't have any??). I got the Sulmet just in case it for some reason wasn't Cocci since it covered a couple other things as well. I figure spending the $8 now was cheaper then the gas it would take me to get back to town to get it if I ended up needing it this week. They told me I could mix the two for good measure, but I'm hesitant to try that advice. I did lose another chick sometime over night so I am down to two.

I started another thread that hasn't had any replies yet - but I'm clueless how to proceed forward with any future flocks. I really want to get some more chicks so I can get them raised up before cool weather hits (and our newest addition to the family in Dec!). I know I won't be up for it next year with 4 kids 5 and under . I have 3 guineas I would like to put in the hoop coop that they were in. Pretty much wire, minimal amount of wood for the bottom frame, and bare ground with some weeds left. I know I need to douse everything with bleach water - what else? The keets are on medicated feed now. Is that enough or what can I do to ensure their health the best I can?

Hi MoonAngel12,

I would say the best thing is to check out ways of raising chicks without medications, and go back to basics of husbandry against cocci... There are many how-tos on the net. I use soured milk as a coccidiosis preventive (I don't use any medications) but if you choose the medication route you still need to graduate their exposure so they're never overwhelmed. I seed my brooder litter with fresh adult hen dirt (from a pen with no chicks in it) right from day one. Don't put them onto damp soil in warm weather if they've been reared on wire or in a clean brooder; you have to gradually increase their exposure to damp soil, over many weeks. Don't put them onto ground that the last chicks you raised were put onto, if you can help it. At the very least (if rearing in a purpose-build grower pen) you need to pile a lot of litter on top of the soil to dilute the amount of cocci oocysts there.

Bleach isn't a great disinfectant against cocci, I gather. The oocysts are very resilient. Best thing would be to wash the brooder with soap and water, flushing many times, and if possible dry it in the sun. Don't raise huge numbers of chicks (that's a fast way to have sudden outbreaks as they all shed oocysts at once). Don't raise chicks back to back. Cocci can live for ages on the ground, but I've noticed resting the brooder for 6 weeks helps enormously.

You can do it; however the main thing to note is that medicated feed doesn't work all the time, especially not if the chicks were raised hygenically then put onto the ground.

I'll just add, with a lot of attention to husbandry I raise chicks on the same ground about 6 times per year, batches of 25 (never more), using soured milk (kefir) as a preventive with no medications whatsoever, and I never see cocci. I raise them till 3 weeks in a small baby brooder, then move them exactly at that time (because at 3 weeks of age they start to shed high numbers of cocci oocysts, so this way the baby brooder never becomes heavily 'seeded') to a larger brooding area or tractor, then there's a 3rd move into a grower pen at about 10 weeks. That may not work for everyone but it works here, and I have damp summers and mild winters, so I suspect it's a good method.

best of luck
Erica

best of luck
Erica

 

[MoonAngel12]

Hi MoonAngel12,

I would say the best thing is to check out ways of raising chicks without medications, and go back to basics of husbandry against cocci... There are many how-tos on the net. I use soured milk as a coccidiosis preventive (I don't use any medications) but if you choose the medication route you still need to graduate their exposure so they're never overwhelmed. I seed my brooder litter with fresh adult hen dirt (from a pen with no chicks in it) right from day one. Don't put them onto damp soil in warm weather if they've been reared on wire or in a clean brooder; you have to gradually increase their exposure to damp soil, over many weeks. Don't put them onto ground that the last chicks you raised were put onto, if you can help it. At the very least (if rearing in a purpose-build grower pen) you need to pile a lot of litter on top of the soil to dilute the amount of cocci oocysts there.

Bleach isn't a great disinfectant against cocci, I gather. The oocysts are very resilient. Best thing would be to wash the brooder with soap and water, flushing many times, and if possible dry it in the sun. Don't raise huge numbers of chicks (that's a fast way to have sudden outbreaks as they all shed oocysts at once). Don't raise chicks back to back. Cocci can live for ages on the ground, but I've noticed resting the brooder for 6 weeks helps enormously.

You can do it; however the main thing to note is that medicated feed doesn't work all the time, especially not if the chicks were raised hygenically then put onto the ground.

I'll just add, with a lot of attention to husbandry I raise chicks on the same ground about 6 times per year, batches of 25 (never more), using soured milk (kefir) as a preventive with no medications whatsoever, and I never see cocci. I raise them till 3 weeks in a small baby brooder, then move them exactly at that time (because at 3 weeks of age they start to shed high numbers of cocci oocysts, so this way the baby brooder never becomes heavily 'seeded') to a larger brooding area or tractor, then there's a 3rd move into a grower pen at about 10 weeks. That may not work for everyone but it works here, and I have damp summers and mild winters, so I suspect it's a good method.

best of luck
Erica

best of luck
Erica

Whew! I have a LOT to learn! I've been spoiled by being totally incident free my first 3 years of raising chickens. We had a really REALLY mild winter which I'm sure is going to lead to a lot of bug issues - of all kinds.

I guess a lot of it is that I am overwhelmed with the sudden change of events... especially not knowing for sure what's going on with them. I read powdered milk sprinkled on their food is good - is that true or does it need to be cultured? Once we get through our round of Corid (5 days, right? Or more?) I'm going to start all of them on water with ACV to help with general health b/c I read that was good also. Just hard to weed through the bad advice to get to the good, YK? I like doing things as naturally as possible, so getting back to chicken roots is where I want to go moving forward. What would be a good source of sound information? I don't trust random Google searches or Wikipedia - a book or blog you can recommend?

 

[leadwolf1]

5 - 7 days is the normal course of treament with Corid.

 

[Erica]

Hi MoonAngel12,
I agree it's hard to wade through advice to find what works. Observation and wide reading need to go hand in hand. Unfortunately some advice will always fail, but that's life. I'm sure you know that already.

As for a blog, I haven't come across a single 'best answer' coccidiosis management website. I had to cobble together my own advice based on reading and observation. So much of what's out there presumes a medicated approach! I'm no expert in it, certainly not from a scientific point of view, but if you're interested, I've written quite a lot about avoiding cocci on my own blog. It's in loose order so you'd need to look at the list of posts by subject/category, and scroll through whatever comes up under 'raising chicks without medications' or else 'soured milk feeding'. I'm sorry it's so ad hoc (and there's one case of cocci you'll read about; that's slightly embarrassing, but it came about because I backed off the soured milk quite drastically, and regretted it). A reasonable summary post about how I do things is here: http://www.permachicken.com/success-no-medications-no-coccidiosis/. I use about a litre of soured milk per 15 chicks daily, so it's quite a lot!


Powdered milk is okay if sprinkled on the food; souring it merely removes the lactose and stops any other issues like diarrhea from developing. But with chicks with cocci, the lactose is less of a concern in my view then getting their insides to pass cocci oocysts through before they hatch (milk will do this). I use soured milk because it add probiotics and doesn't cause scouring (soured with kefir, not ACV or other vinegar).

The best start for your reading would probably be about cocci life cycles (e.g. oocysts come out in droppings but take 48 hours to ripen and become infective, which is why if you move chicks daily they don't get it... also, it takes about 5-6 days between an overwhelming exposure and symptoms).



I wish I knew of a book that gives all this info concisely. Unfortunately I've never found one that prefers management to medications. It just seems medications are the standard response. I'd much rather do it naturally.

cheers, and best of luck
Erica