Meat birds and crossing for meat

[dustponds10]

We all know about the Cornish X but what other birds out there have the growth rate as the Cornish cross?

Is Cornish the key or is the Plymouth Rock for size/growth?

I’d like to maintain a small flock just for meat birds and would love to know what you all have found.

 

[Molpet]

Standard Cornish has the double breasted but slooow growth. The decades of breeding trials has developed the grandparent stock that produce the parents that produce the terminal CX we eat.

I kept a 2016 CX pullet and 2016 hatched 3 cockerels, out of a random mix roo from FB. Most of my flock is out of them. Cockerels hatched 2017 on have been dressed out around 6 lb at 16 weeks. The offspring don't live more than a couple years so I have tried adding Orpington, and latest is a standard dark Cornish.

 

[3KillerBs]

We all know about the Cornish X but what other birds out there have the growth rate as the Cornish cross?

Nothing.

The Cornish X chicken is the fastest-growing, most feed-efficient livestock animal ever created and nothing else even comes close.

 

[Ridgerunner]

We all know about the Cornish X but what other birds out there have the growth rate as the Cornish cross?

None. The Rangers come the closest for chickens. Certain turkeys aren't bad.

Is Cornish the key or is the Plymouth Rock for size/growth?

One key is selective breeding. The Cornish and White Rock breeds were used to initially contribute different things, body conformation and skin and feather color are just a few. A pretty wide range of characteristics. A big goal with them is efficiency in converting feed to meat. Rate of growth and size are more a byproduct of that efficiency.

It didn't take the lady that developed the first Cornish Cross that many generations to develop a more efficient broiler. She owned a hatchery and obviously knew what she was doing. By the 1950's her creation took over the chicken meat business. Since then they've worked on the genetics but a whole lot of the research is how to feed and manage them to maximize that feed conversion to meat efficiency and how to keep the parent and grandparent flocks alive to produce eggs to hatch them.

It's not just a matter of crossing certain breeds. It's careful selective breeding and how to manage them.

I’d like to maintain a small flock just for meat birds and would love to know what you all have found.

If you read through various threads on here you'll find where people have tried to breed Cornish X with other Cornish X and some have tried crossing Cornish X with other birds, usually some dual purpose breed. All kinds of dual purpose breeds. Others have tried that with Rangers. Some of us just breed dual purpose, some of these a specific breed, others crosses.

It's hard keeping a Cornish X alive long enough to breed but some people manage. Very few of those people manage to keep them alive very much longer. Rangers are a little easier but still present challenges.

I think a lot of it has to do with your specific goals and what you consider a good meat bird. For some people that's purely size, nothing to do with efficiency of feed conversion or rate of growth. For others it may be about rate of growth and not so much about size. For some the age you butcher them is important. I like my dual purpose because I don't have to butcher them once they reach a certain size or age or else they'll fall over dead. Some people feel a specific breed may have better texture and will sacrifice other traits for that. Some want more breast meat, some more dark meat. Some only eat the cockerels, I eat both cockerels and pullets. Some only want enough for their family, some have a business.

What I've found is that it is not a case of one size fits all. There is no one best practice for all of us, we are all different. And what you consider to be a good meat bird can change as you gain experience. My suggestion, other than reading a lot in this meat bird forum, is to let us know what traits you consider important so maybe we can point you in a specific direction. There is a tremendous amount of experience in this forum, both in how to succeed and how to fail.

 

[NatJ]

Is Cornish the key or is the Plymouth Rock for size/growth?

When the cross was first developed, the Cornish provided the large breast and the Plymouth Rock provided the fast early growth.

Those chickens grew better than any others that were available at that time.

But by now, those original cornish cross would be very disappointing. As @Ridgerunner said, selective breeding has produced parent stock that no longer look like Cornish or like Rocks, but they produce chicks who grow very fast and very large.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I've read of some moderate "success" with crossing in some Dark Cornish, and one of our frequent posters has some big offspring with an Easter Egger, of all things (a bird that's already more genetic lottery than not). But "success" in this case means a meaty DP bird, not a meat bird like the CX.

As the other posters have FAR more informatively said - nothing competes. And yes, I used a CX (hen) in my culling project. While I was able to successfully raise a male CX to maturity via a combination of methods, the fertility rate was VERY low - easier to get some desired genetics out of the hen.

Results of my very small scale experiment? Half the child birds showed anything like Ranger-rates of growth, much less CX. Less than half of their offspring seem to be significantly larger, faster growing than their peers. Getting the "white" genes out of the mix (which i don't desire) is proving difficult.

That said, remember my offhand comment about the genetic lottery? That's my CULLING, not Breeding, project. I have a lot of genes to work with but not a lot of birds. If I started with 50 birds of the same two species breeds, and carefully bred only the best of the offspring to the best of their siblings, or backbred into the best parent stock, I could certainly make faster progress on a single trait.

officially, we raise pekin ducks for meat. Or would, if we had better incubation rates.

/edited to fix my stupid. Fingers got far ahead of my brain.

 

[NatJ]

If I started with 50 birds of the same two species,

You probably mean breeds. All domestic chickens are one species.
(Yes, I assume it's just a typo, and you'll go fix it now that it's been pointed out.)

 

[U_Stormcrow]

You probably mean breeds. All domestic chickens are one species.
(Yes, I assume it's just a typo, and you'll go fix it now that it's been pointed out.)

Yep. More coffee. Fixing now. We aren't making mules here, no matter how much the male duck sometimes seems to want to try...

 

[dustponds10]

None. The Rangers come the closest for chickens. Certain turkeys aren't bad.


One key is selective breeding. The Cornish and White Rock breeds were used to initially contribute different things, body conformation and skin and feather color are just a few. A pretty wide range of characteristics. A big goal with them is efficiency in converting feed to meat. Rate of growth and size are more a byproduct of that efficiency.

It didn't take the lady that developed the first Cornish Cross that many generations to develop a more efficient broiler. She owned a hatchery and obviously knew what she was doing. By the 1950's her creation took over the chicken meat business. Since then they've worked on the genetics but a whole lot of the research is how to feed and manage them to maximize that feed conversion to meat efficiency and how to keep the parent and grandparent flocks alive to produce eggs to hatch them.

It's not just a matter of crossing certain breeds. It's careful selective breeding and how to manage them.


If you read through various threads on here you'll find where people have tried to breed Cornish X with other Cornish X and some have tried crossing Cornish X with other birds, usually some dual purpose breed. All kinds of dual purpose breeds. Others have tried that with Rangers. Some of us just breed dual purpose, some of these a specific breed, others crosses.

It's hard keeping a Cornish X alive long enough to breed but some people manage. Very few of those people manage to keep them alive very much longer. Rangers are a little easier but still present challenges.

I think a lot of it has to do with your specific goals and what you consider a good meat bird. For some people that's purely size, nothing to do with efficiency of feed conversion or rate of growth. For others it may be about rate of growth and not so much about size. For some the age you butcher them is important. I like my dual purpose because I don't have to butcher them once they reach a certain size or age or else they'll fall over dead. Some people feel a specific breed may have better texture and will sacrifice other traits for that. Some want more breast meat, some more dark meat. Some only eat the cockerels, I eat both cockerels and pullets. Some only want enough for their family, some have a business.

What I've found is that it is not a case of one size fits all. There is no one best practice for all of us, we are all different. And what you consider to be a good meat bird can change as you gain experience. My suggestion, other than reading a lot in this meat bird forum, is to let us know what traits you consider important so maybe we can point you in a specific direction. There is a tremendous amount of experience in this forum, both in how to succeed and how to fail.

Thanks so much for your post. What I am looking an looking for is something that has a double breast and a fairly fast growth rate. It doesn’t have to be 7-8 weeks. Just a bird I can dress out and have 5-7 lb of meat. I’m not sure what the Cornish x are when they are butchered.

I have a fair amount of knowledge in selective breeding as I have breed genetic hackle birds for a decade. It’s breeding for different things but i have the facility to house probably 300-400 birds if I wanted. That is not my desire. I want to raise enough chicken to feed my family. Between caning and freezing meat.


What breed of turkey would you suggest also. I would do chickens and turkeys.

 

[dustponds10]

I've read of some moderate "success" with crossing in some Dark Cornish, and one of our frequent posters has some big offspring with an Easter Egger, of all things (a bird that's already more genetic lottery than not). But "success" in this case means a meaty DP bird, not a meat bird like the CX.

As the other posters have FAR more informatively said - nothing competes. And yes, I used a CX (hen) in my culling project. While I was able to successfully raise a male CX to maturity via a combination of methods, the fertility rate was VERY low - easier to get some desired genetics out of the hen.

Results of my very small scale experiment? Half the child birds showed anything like Ranger-rates of growth, much less CX. Less than half of their offspring seem to be significantly larger, faster growing than their peers. Getting the "white" genes out of the mix (which i don't desire) is proving difficult.

That said, remember my offhand comment about the genetic lottery? That's my CULLING, not Breeding, project. I have a lot of genes to work with but not a lot of birds. If I started with 50 birds of the same two species breeds, and carefully bred only the best of the offspring to the best of their siblings, or backbred into the best parent stock, I could certainly make faster progress on a single trait.

officially, we raise pekin ducks for meat. Or would, if we had better incubation rates.

/edited to fix my stupid. Fingers got far ahead of my brain.

Thanks you for posting. You mention the rangers. Do they cross with the Cornish well and have a pretty good growth rate? I could house a lot of birds if I want. I have facilities and incubators to house 300-400 birds. I don’t want to do that but i could. I used to raise genetic hackle chickens at that rate. So cages and incubators and what not inhave covered.