Miniature Horse Naughtiness!UPDATE: Ed left today to get gelded.

[dmiravalle]

Agreed, it is amazing how people think of them like small house pets. We took in one rescue who was living on dog food, "cuz, he liked it better"!!

I do appreciate it when people ask for help though and if they are serious and sincere, I will always try to help. There are too many mini's out there right now with now where to go.

I have two older rescue mares we are waiting for them to foal out. Purchased from a breeder, bred, at 19 and 20. When the owner realized their hay bill was over the amount she had budgeted for, she dumped them on some poor kid, who thought they were sick, paid a nice vet bill to find out they are malnurished pregant mares who are old and need a lot of teeth work and her mom brought them here.

It is soooo heartbreaking!

 

[sourland]

Geld him and engage a professional trainer or find a proper home for him. Although he is small, he is capable of causing serious injury.

 

[Redcatcher]

Hormones should NEVER be used as an excuse for "bad" behavior. While gelding him is a good idea, I agree that it will likely not resolve the problem. A professional might not even be required, either. Just someone who has some experience and a firm hand. In fact, all that might be needed is a few minutes to turn his attitude around. He just wants to play. Keeping him busy and occupied will go a long way. Horses are intelligent and they get bored very easily.

 

[loot4louie]

You are ahead of many because you don't think its cute just because its little. I would geld him ASAP. Then continue your daily training. Treats encourage biting- no hand feeding. Bucket treats are fine. I still dont hand feed my 11 year old because he gets nasty and demands them. Get a longe whip- or long broom or rope. When he backs his rear to you you can send him forward. No need for aggression, just tap, swish, shake- whatever needed to send him forward. I make my guy circle until you see his ears moving around telling you he's thinking. Keep your "pushing" arm with utensil raised and towards his hind quarters- keep your eyes on him and shoulders square to his body. You can even get ahead of him and put the pushing arm in front of him to TELL him to go the other way. Remember in a herd, a ---chy old mare would have laid into his teenage butt for such behavior! Once he appears to be listening and moving away from you you can lower your pushing arm and drop one shoulder. Keep eyes on him but walk towrds his neck- not head on. If he is respectful give him a scratch- if he is naughty start over. It used to take me 40 min to an hour to catch my horse- now he doesnt even bother to play if I try to catch him- other people he still kicks at and is sassy. I basically learned this by accident. I attended a Monty Roberts clinic and saw him use this method. I have yet to come across a horse it doesnt work on. Even in large fields, you just have to "hoof" it a little. And don't be afraid to be stern with a horse. They respond better to 1 strong correction than to many weak naggings. I always lead with a chain- it only hurts if they hit the end of it! Good Luck!!

 

[bossynbella]

First off, I have spent the afternoon looking around, and calling around about geldings. That being said. And Im sorry if this isn't what you all want to hear. Im Sorry DH bought ed. I love him a lot but knew as soon as I saw the ticket saying he was a stud colt we where in for a world of pain. That being said we did buy him, and short of giving him to a rescue, there are not alot of people around here wanting to buy a NICE miniature horse much less one that is not only is a little fugly looking but also now has attitude. We are not finanically well off. I am not trying to excuse this I am just trying to let everyone know before hand, that we do the best we can do for Edward and for the rest of our animals. My DH is unemployed, I lost a job of 5 years this summer and at my new job took a $1 pay cut. This was all AFTER we got Edward. I considered rehoming him this fall, but 1. no one was interested and 2. We seemed to be doing very well with him.
Also I am a responsable person, I first off Never sat the full weight of a child on his back (mom was holding her just so she could feel ed under her and he could feel her on him, so she wouldn't of fallen, and I know no weight on him till 3. Second I had been working with him all summer and fall, we where working on lunging, as well as verbal comands for Go and Stop. To the point that he would stop with no physical pulling or anything just because I said Whoa. So I guess I just feel a little trodden upon by the people who I know are just trying to help, I have no intention of taking him to an auction, I will never pawn off my problems on someone else. Of course I wish things where different, Of course I wish I could afford to pay for a trainer, and to have him gelded tomorrow. but truth is I can't. You can berate me for that, but it won't change the fact that I have $30 until I get paid again, at which point, after paying rent I will have about $100 more. At this time I am looking into seeing if a vet will allow me to do a payment plan. We have no credit cards, and no one to borrow the money from. I still owe my mother in law $200 from when we where both unemployed this summer.
This attitude seems to have happened over night, One day fine, then the back kicking started, Always these things happen to DH before me, Then the biting (which is something we delt with when we first got him, and had broke him of, we thought, many months ago. Now the scarriest part to me is the rearing up and front kicking.

Today after I was out there, he got out of his pen, we didn't notice for about 20 minutes, when we went out to replace frozen waterbottles, and rewater everyone he was standing in the front yard, we finished watering everyone and I walked up to him and he let me get his halter no problem, he walked great up till the driveway when he slipped on ice (covered in snow, I didn't realize was there), I didn't see it DH from behind did, this freaked him out (understandably I think) and he tried to rear, Me not knowing he slipped pulled down on the halter to keep him from going up and Firmly Said "NO , Ed, NO" it took a couple seconds before he calmed, we then made the rest of the walk to his pen easily with no problems.

So I am planning on gelding, as soon as possible, I need ideas for in between, also this just occurred to me, they have to go into a vet to be gelded? or do they somehow do it at the farm? I have no horse trailer, he rode home in a friends SUV, which he will not fit in now. Another thing to worry about I guess. And as far as giving up cable, we have no cable, only the very basic internet service and a cell phone (our only phone) which is $35 a month. So there are not exactly a lot of things to cut into money wise or trust me I would be doing it.
Thank you to those who have helped, and to those whom I'm not a good enough owner for Ed, I'm sorry I am doing the best I can do, and that's all I can do. Any suggestions for helping with the attitude until then, including what to look for, and how to correct it, or preferably prevent it from happening would be greatly appreciated.

 

[welsummerchicks]

I'm sorry that you are having a hard time of it. I've been in the same situation. But I think you know that what people are saying is true - it really isn't a good idea to get a horse, even a miniature, on an impulse. And like I said, the seller shouldn't have sold you a baby horse. He for sure knew you would have a tough time of it.

But now you're where you are at, and you didn't get there deliberately or out of meanness, quite the opposite. So everyone here will help any way they can.

The vet can come to your place to geld Ed.

I'd expect him to get upset when he slips on ice.

As far as getting out, it will be very important to make sure his fence is secure and solid. Neighbors have a way of complaining about loose animals, but also, if he gets out he could get hurt.

As far as the biting, it's just what he'd do if he was playing with other horses. Since he isn't trained, he just does what comes natural to him. And they get to an age where they start to play more vigorously, and that's when they start to nip and then bite. The way they play with each other, they just have a wild time. Biting, chasing, kicking, that's how they do.

Believe it or not, it's not meanness at all. It's just something horses do. They just start to get more energy, and get playful. They really don't have any idea that it can hurt you or that it's upsetting. It's basically 'normal' for them to bite. Horses that don't bite, were taught not to. I've had a lot of young horses to work with, and most of them started out at the very least, nipping.

Very quick reactions are what gets the point across that biting is not allowed. Slapping the face or neck actually tends to encourage biting. The animal just thinks the person is trying to play.

The very second he reaches toward you to bite(opens his mouth and darts at you), a good hard jerk on the lead rope attached to his halter, and at the same time, a firm 'NO'. If it's done even a second after, it's too late and the animal won't connect up the punishment with the biting. The whole trick to training horses is getting in there right at the right moment, or the horse has no idea what we are trying to teach.

But you'll also have to punish him the exact same way, if he nibbles, or licks, or actually bites. He can't tell the difference between all these things. AND...EVERYONE has to follow through exactly the same. If one person thinks 'aw, he's so cute when he grabs my jacket' and another person says, 'No biting my jacket!', it just isn't going to work out. They can't figure out what's wanted and they get all mixed up and tense.

As far as training horses, it's always about keeping things very, very simple and immediate. Horses think in extremely, extremely simple ways. They do not think like people. They have an incredible memory for things, and that tends to fool people into thinking they must be thinking like people. But they just don't put things together in their mind like people do.

For example, if I'm riding, and pass by a certain spot, and right then say I jerk the reins, say accidentally, because I lost my balance in the saddle and fell to one side, the horse will throw his head up in the air(and might even hit me in the face with his neck) - not only that time, but every single time I pass by that certain spot for the next 30 years, LOL. I've 'trained' him to do that, without actually wanting to!

Horses all are like that. They put things together, often in a way a person didn't think of. But they all think in the same way, very, very simple, very immediate. Meaning if you can't get in there and get the correction in immediately, don't even bother. They just don't connect things up when they are separated by any amount of time.

 

[RiverOtter]

If my words sounded harsh, it wasn't to offend you, I just don't want to sugarcoat the problem that you're having. Like welsummerfarm says, this is all perfectly normal, natural behavior for a young horse that age. Gelding will help, but it's not all about the hormones. And there's a pretty big chance of hospital/vet bills here.

Also, I could tell you what I would do and when I would do it if I was standing right there. BUT- if I was standing right there I would know what he was going to do 3 to 30 seconds before you would because I have a lot of experience "reading" a horse's body language that you don't have. Not because you're a bad person or a bad owner - simply that I've worked with LOTS of horses including young studs. So while you are watching his tail and ears I am also watching his nostrils, mouth, tension in his flank muscles, etc. The timing would be off and timing is everything.

I can tell you that I've never had a horse try to bite me without wrinkling his lips at least a fraction of a second before his ears begin to pin. And if he is being playful his ears may not really pin but his lips will still wrinkle. But I may just get you hurt that way because while you are watching for a subtle cue you may miss something else, his lips will do nothing if he decides to spin and kick.

The best way to begin to learn all this is on the outside of the corral fence while watching someone experienced who is explaining everything that is happening and why. Otherwise it is like taking a math test while trying to juggle bowling balls. Not impossible, but really hard and someone's getting hurt.

Now, you have my total sympathy about being poor. I am Poor with a capital P. I have internet because it replaces my phone (MagicJack, $20 a year, lousy call quality once in a while but at that price who cares) and it's a big part of my DDs homeschooling. I haven't had cable in years and I've yet to own a car that wasn't old enough to legally drink.
LOL I've been poor long enough that I'm pretty good at it.
Ask around for a GOOD trainer. You don't want/need Cowboy Bob. Offer to barter. I see you've got some nice poultry in your sig line. If I was nearby I'd give you a session or two in exchange for some hatching eggs or, even better, chicks or ducklings.
What do you and your DH do? I could use some fence put up (I am lousy at putting up woven wire fence and if someone would put up about 660' for me I'd board their horse for a month and work him daily - I am that sick of fencing) There is a horse trainer around there that wants or needs something as much as you need Ed trained and I want that stinking fence done.

 

[welsummerchicks]

Oh ! I thought of something else. Sellers often will tell you minis can live in tiny yards, but they need to run and exercise in a big area, and a lot of that behavior you see, could actually be simple pent up energy.

So you might consider fencing a large grassy area where he can run and get rid of some of the excess energy. Minis CAN eat too much grass, rather easily, so it's important to not let them suddenly out on a lush area.

 

[dmiravalle]

Couple of suggestions if you are on a shoestring budget.

#1. Do not play with his mouth at all, playing with a young stallions lips teaches him it is ok to put that part on you. Same with sucking on clothes, etc. BAD HABIT everyone gets into with mini's if they are not used to stallions. Even fillies love to bite when they are learning.

#2. If I get a real wayward stallion, I use a fine dog's training collar (choke chain) and use it as a stud lead. Works great, BUT you have to be sure to weld one of the large rings completely closed and use that end for your pressure end or it could just snap. When used properly it is just a little instant reminder to obey the rules.

#3. Contact any local mini rescue groups, some may offer help gelding your guy and if close enough someone may be willing to come out and give some free owner/horse training lessons. I do it locally here for people.

#4. Make sure you lunge him well BEFORE trying to work with him. I have trained my stallions a "new" command when we lunge, since we do driving, they are not allowed to canter, so then we use the word "Break" and that means they get to go hog wild for a few minutes. They are very smart and can learn many commands. I only use positive reinforcement with verbal or my hand and use the lead for corrections. I never hit any horse but especially stallions, they learn to see it as a challenge.

I did have a stallion who LOVED to rear, so we worked on the down command first, then we taught him to rear on command. But You REALLY have to be comfortable stallions and be able to read their moods.

Also, look for any "hot" foods you may be feeding that could be contributing to his behavior problems.


Ok, that is my two cents for what it's worth...

 

[lil'turkeymama]

Well,bossynbella,Congrats for your love of Ed.He's just finally making hisself at home.I've been reading this post and waiting to see what kind of help you would get.All kinds it seems.I'm by no means a expert.But I've owned horses and ponies for over 30 years.I don't really train horses as much as I just let them stay here.LOL.My farm,My rules.

Your Ed is just being a young horse.They all do that.Big ones or little ones,not size but age.You just need to watch his signs.
I don't worry so much about the gelding part,folks don't say its a filly,have her spayed.

He does need his own space outside.A 15'x15' space in the back yard would work.He'll get ill and stomp chickens if he' needing room.And horses are herd animals,get him a buddy goat and out of the hen house.
You should check his diet.Horses/ponies need very little grain if they are just pets.Feed him good grass hay,a mineral block plus water at all times.I never feed treats.From my hand.I rarely feed grain.It can and will cause hoof problems.Plus the extra sugar adds to the "I'll take that bucket" thing.Best of luck to you and ed and the rest.