Mixing grains into feed and offering scratch questions

[ChickenCanoe]

X2

Many areas don't have that variety of feed available but I agree with you.

 

[CyndiD]

Ive been feeding layer pellets & scratch in seperate bowls because i Assumed my rooster needed something besides layer pellets. What should i feed my rooster, If he doesnt need layer feed or if scratch is a treat? All flock? How do i feed my rooster seperately. My flocks are free range & i have ducks too that i feed layer pellets & scratch. I did recently buy some "all flock" that i want to switch them to. & i have baby chicks & ducklings, i have all kinds of bags of feed for all the different ages.... Wow, so much to know & decide!?!?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Try to simplify it. There's 2 primary nutrients to consider, calcium and protein.

Layer feed is about 4% calcium. All other feed is about 1%. Any bird not depositing 2 grams of calcium in an egg shell every day shouldn't be getting 4% calcium. If one has roosters, chicks, molting birds, etc. in their flock, grower or all flock is likely the best option and providing a large particle calcium source like oyster shell free choice in a separate container.

Protein is slightly more complicated. Most feeds list the % of crude protein but only tell the % of the amino acids lysine and methionine. And they list those because they are essential but don't come from the vegetative sources that are the basis of most feeds.
There are 9 amino acids essential in the human diet. Chickens need 13 that they can't synthesize.
Simply put, the younger the bird, the more protein is beneficial. Game birds also need more than chickens.
For chickens you can simplify it by feeding young birds a starter/grower at 18% and then a feed about 16% as they mature.
But to micro manage it more. Chicks would benefit from 20-22% till about 8 weeks, then cut back to 18 and as they mature it can be cut back to 15 with a finisher feed. The only time adult birds need a little more is when molting.

Excessive calcium can lead to visceral gout. Excessive protein can cause articular gout.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Ive been feeding layer pellets & scratch in seperate bowls because i Assumed my rooster needed something besides layer pellets. What should i feed my rooster, If he doesnt need layer feed or if scratch is a treat? All flock? How do i feed my rooster seperately. My flocks are free range & i have ducks too that i feed layer pellets & scratch. I did recently buy some "all flock" that i want to switch them to. & i have baby chicks & ducklings, i have all kinds of bags of feed for all the different ages.... Wow, so much to know & decide!?!?

I think switching everyone to all flock makes sense for you. We are in a similar situation and that's what we did. So much simpler for us and the layers do great on the higher protein all purpose base ration with oyster shell on the side.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I agree with Chicken Canoe in general, with an additional consideration or two.

The research I've read suggests excessive calcium is more problematic on its own that excessive calcium is on its own. The two together are certainly problematic, that's when you are most likely to induce gout. But "excessive" for calcium happens at a lower percentage than the excessive for protein ... that's because just 4% calcium is twice as much as non-layers should get. Conversely, the 16% protein of standard layer rations is minimal even for layers, but studies suggest even confined layers do better on a little more protein (up to about 20-22% is where the studies say you get diminishing returns in adult standard layer breeds). Meaning the studies suggest the problems with excessive protein show up at much higher concentrations than you'll find in poultry rations as long as calcium levels are within the safe zone.

The only birds I try to make sure get less protein than is in my all-flock ration are the ducks. They're all adults and have their own space and ducks are said to do better on less protein.

 

[CyndiD]

Thanks LeslieD for confirming my thought. It does male better sense.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I agree with Chicken Canoe in general, with an additional consideration or two.

The research I've read suggests excessive calcium is more problematic on its own that excessive calcium is on its own. The two together are certainly problematic, that's when you are most likely to induce gout. But "excessive" for calcium happens at a lower percentage than the excessive for protein ... that's because just 4% calcium is twice as much as non-layers should get. Conversely, the 16% protein of standard layer rations is minimal even for layers, but studies suggest even confined layers do better on a little more protein (up to about 20-22% is where the studies say you get diminishing returns in adult standard layer breeds). Meaning the studies suggest the problems with excessive protein show up at much higher concentrations than you'll find in poultry rations as long as calcium levels are within the safe zone.

The only birds I try to make sure get less protein than is in my all-flock ration are the ducks. They're all adults and have their own space and ducks are said to do better on less protein.

I agree with that.
Also, the excess protein is expelled as uric acid and increases ammonia in the litter.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Here is a link to an abstract for a study on this issue: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16359121

 

[rmurrayslcut]

I started giving my first flock scratch as soon as they were old enough; about three cups, twice a day. I did it for a treat and to relieve boredom, in addition to their high-protein feed.

I suspect that they eat scratch to the detriment of their regular feed, and that it's affected their health and egg output. I'm about to retire my first flock, and my second has never had scratch.

As a very rare treat - scratch may be fine, but I'm sticking to quality feed only. Plus, my hens have room to free-range, so I think they get a varied diet that way.

Scratch grains also attract pests like pigeons and mice.

 

[allpeepedout]

I feed standard layer feed throughout the day, as much as they can eat, plus as much forage as I can come up with. Oyster shell on the side.

At happy hour, they get a cup of whole oats for 7 large fowl. Before bedtime, they get a cup of BOSS. People remark about how nice and healthy they look, and they have continued to lay fairly well into their 5th laying season, at 4 eggs day / 6 hens this season, no health issues so far.