Mixing Lines

[BarnGoddess01]

I got my line 7 years ago from a very old gentleman. Unfortunately, they were VERY inbred. They did well together for the first 6 years, then I started getting issues. Chicks missing eyes, chicks missing toes, no wings, and my personal favorite, brains outside of the skull. Luckily, these never hatched otherwise I would have had nightmares.


I searched high and low for the same line that I had because I wanted to maintain the lines I already had. I got a bird from a breeder that had the exact same lines I did. I used this bird and now have no more problems. Unless something else pops up, I do not think I will ever use birds from another line. If I had crossed the lines, a few years down the road I would have "been starting over" with a line I did not know the outcomes of. What to expect.

I probably would have gotten several birds with wrong colored eyes, squirrel tails, tails set way too low, side sprigs in the comb, etc.

I've already gotten to the point where I don't open the eggs that don't hatch. I don't want to know ....

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Thanks so much for spelling that out for me and others to learn from Fred. It sounds like when a breed has multiple strong lines, it is better to pursue them alone than to risk weakening, or further weakening, two lines with crossing. Hope I understood that correctly.

Barn, so much to learn, and such knowledgable people here. What a great resource!

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Great information RP and Fred about finding a balance between breeding too closely and too distantly. This helps explain to me one reason why it is so important to have more than one person with a given line, and why keeping quality lines alive is so challenging in an animal that is largely supplied by hatcheries these days.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Here's the thing. If a line is GREAT? I mean really good? The result of someone's decades of work? Let's say you get a trio from this line. Off you go. You won't get Best of Breed out of them just because they come from a great line. You're going to have to breed them wisely, hatch a bunch of chicks, develop a good eye, make intelligent pairings, leveling your flock, culling heavily, and work at them. It's kind of a law of the universe that things degrade if allowed to do so.

Now, working on one line tough enough. If you cross with another line, (worked on by someone else for decades to produce positive results and suppress undesirable traits), you now make new birds that are really neither line. You're now at the deep end of a very blended gene pool with not much of a life preserver.

Again, it simply much easier, it seems to me, to just procure a solid line and go forward, even if it means dumping your present birds. Anyhow, that's my take. I'm not a genius or a master anything, but I learn, I listen and follow the wiser ones' guidance. There are some awesome breeders here on BYC.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Another good thing about keeping with one line is that you can go back to that breeder, that knows his line and knows what to look for, can help you throughout the process of building your own flock.

Keep a single line for awhile, make separate pens that you can use. Don't mix them as Fred said. That way you can keep your line going without an issue for some time. This way, you can develop your line and eye, you know what you want in your line and know which birds are keepers and which are culls. Look to the breeder for guidance. Many are more than happy to help others who are starting in the fancy.

Like Fred said, unless you have having extremely poor fertility, or in my case...scary things...keep a line pure.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Another good thing about keeping with one line is that you can go back to that breeder, that knows his line and knows what to look for, can help you throughout the process of building your own flock.

Keep a single line for awhile, make separate pens that you can use. Don't mix them as Fred said. That way you can keep your line going without an issue for some time. This way, you can develop your line and eye, you know what you want in your line and know which birds are keepers and which are culls. Look to the breeder for guidance. Many are more than happy to help others who are starting in the fancy.

Like Fred said, unless you have having extremely poor fertility, or in my case...scary things...keep a line pure.

Or ... if your ladies simply are NOT laying eggs .... that may be another reason to look outside the line ....

(total newbie so I'm just guessing .... )

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Yes, but I would look for a more productive line, not a production line. You could completely ruin a breeding program by using a production bird.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Some lines, of the same breed, are better layers than others. If better laying is important to you, then choose a good line, with decent laying and stick with them.

Whenever people mix lines, what they report is that what they often get is a downward spiral, with the weaker line merely pulling down the better line, not the expected upward pulling that was desired. This stuff is far more tricky than what initially meets the eye.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Yes, but I would look for a more productive line, not a production line. You could completely ruin a breeding program by using a production bird.

Oy ... my other line is definitely more productive but I had never considered them a "production line". That doesn't mean they are or aren't. I simply don't know. Quite frankly, in Canada, at this point, with the funky new stuff like Marans and Ameraucanas (and even Silkies), we usually take what we can get and go from there, complete garbage included. I know I haven't ruined any breeding programs because folks are donating their eggs to the poor, pathetic Canadian (Me) thus my experimenting isn't hurting them one bit assuming I don't spread their names all over and put black marks on their reputations which I have no intention of doing but I would like to be able to make the most of the resources I've been given access to - because I AM being given access to some good birds. I just need to figure out how to work with them.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Some lines, of the same breed, are better layers than others. If better laying is important to you, then choose a good line, with decent laying and stick with them.

Whenever people mix lines, what they report is that what they often get is a downward spiral, with the weaker line merely pulling down the better line, not the expected upward pulling that was desired. This stuff is far more tricky than what initially meets the eye.

I am definitely taking note of this post. My F1 generation of crossed Ameraucanas are just coming to point of lay so I am truly curious to see how these girls do. Dad of these girls is a brother to my diva ladies and he's a pretty big diva himself. I have 3 pullets from one of my REALLY good layers from another line. Not a diva. So I'm curious to see what I end up with.