Modern Game Bantam Hybrids for Potential Longtail Project

Michael99

Songster
Jan 3, 2018
161
193
141
Litchfield Park, AZ
I'm looking for people with experience crossing Modern Game Bantams to other breeds, specifically how dominant (or recessive) the long leg genes seem to be, and what it looks like in a heterozygous vs homozygous form; and I'd love to see some pictures for comparison!

The reason I ask is because I'm considering getting some Modern Game Bantams and crossing them to Phoenix Bantams in order to make a Phoenix Bantam with a more "modern" type (similar to what Phoenix often look like in Europe) appearance which we don't really seem to have in America. The emphasis would be on increasing leg and neck length, and having a longer back, thinner body, and more horizontal body stance and tightly held wings. This was first done in Germany ("Ismer"/"Modern" type Phoenix) to produce a more graceful looking bird that would be a bit lower maintenance. I'll post some pictures below from European breeders (that I got from facebook) so people know what the ultimate goal of this potential project would be.

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Delaneygraces

Songster
Jan 14, 2018
670
1,457
237
Illinois
Hello!
I’m not incredibly experienced in crossing the breed, but we did have an old English game bantam rooster breed a modern hen once, and the ALL of the babies came out looking like moderns, but slightly more squatty/shorter legged.
In moderns, primarily/generally the rooster passes on the coloring genes, and the hen passes on the body type/build, so I would suggest trying to breed a modern hen to a Phoenix rooster to get the best “moderny” build.

Good luck! Ilook forward to seeing what birds you might produce!
 

Michael99

Songster
Jan 3, 2018
161
193
141
Litchfield Park, AZ
Hello!
I’m not incredibly experienced in crossing the breed, but we did have an old English game bantam rooster breed a modern hen once, and the ALL of the babies came out looking like moderns, but slightly more squatty/shorter legged.
In moderns, primarily/generally the rooster passes on the coloring genes, and the hen passes on the body type/build, so I would suggest trying to breed a modern hen to a Phoenix rooster to get the best “moderny” build.

Good luck! Ilook forward to seeing what birds you might produce!
Thank you, this is exactly the info I was looking for!
 

Youbetteryoubet

Chirping
5 Years
Jul 5, 2014
5
12
61
You have to think, Phoenix were accepted to the APA in 1965 and although Moderns were used in developing the breed that was a long time ago.
When trying to improve upon established breeds that's where selective breeding comes in. Find stock with the desired traits and build your breeding plan on them. It makes more sense to breed in desired traits than it will be to breed out all the undesired traits that will come with introducing a whole new breed.
That being said if you are set on introducing a whole other breed to help with the improvements you are looking for. Malay would be closer to what you are looking for then Moderns IMO.
Best of luck to ya!
 

Michael99

Songster
Jan 3, 2018
161
193
141
Litchfield Park, AZ
You have to think, Phoenix were accepted to the APA in 1965 and although Moderns were used in developing the breed that was a long time ago.
When trying to improve upon established breeds that's where selective breeding comes in. Find stock with the desired traits and build your breeding plan on them. It makes more sense to breed in desired traits than it will be to breed out all the undesired traits that will come with introducing a whole new breed.
That being said if you are set on introducing a whole other breed to help with the improvements you are looking for. Malay would be closer to what you are looking for then Moderns IMO.
Best of luck to ya!
I completely agree with you! I always think it's better to use selective breeding, but selective breeding only works if the genes that you want are present in the first place. Most of the good quality Phoenix in the US are descended from the CY Hyde line, which itself has ancestry from onagadori and leghorn mostly. Most of the breeders in the US have continued with these birds for show, and they do well, but they don't have as good of type as the European birds and it's because most of the lines in the US haven't been outcrossed to modern games and then stabilized.

From what I can tell, only a handful of breeders in the US have birds with the "Modern" type, and it's because at some point they added modern game genes into their lines. unfortunately, none of these lines are bantam sized or solid colored (they are duckwings), so I think this is my only choice. And I have considered using Malay or Thai, but the leg color, brittle looking feathers, and gameiness makes me think modern games would probably be a better choice.
 

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