More Problems in Hen House

[Oldallamerican]

This has been a crazy week with my chickens. Some of this I mentioned in another thread so I'll be brief. I had dusted my chickens, yard, and coop with Garden and Poultry dust (said on the label safe for chickens); but some of my chickens began making gurgling noises when they breathed. So I was in a panic that I had poisoned my chickens, but after doing some research rested a bit easier figuring if I had poisoned my chickens they would be dead by now, eventually they would get better, and besides there was nothing I could do about it anyway.

So the next day, Wednesday, my wife and I came home from church and I went to close the babies up in their coop for the night when I see to my horror the gate to their yard was wide open (I keep my chickens in an enclosed yard for protection from predators). A quick check showed all our babies (in this group I have ten hens and two roos - a mistake, I think but really hasn't been detrimental yet - I have a second set of younger pullets some nineteen Gold and Silver laced Wyandottes, Easter Eggers, and a White Rock separated until they grow a bit) safely on their roosts in an upper area (8' X 4') of the coop where I have their roosts and access to their nesting boxes set up outside the main coop where I can get the eggs with minimum disturbance.

So I breathe a sigh of relief but my wife looks down at the main floor of the coop, which is about 8' X 8' feet - about half of which runs under the roosting area - and sees a crushed egg shell with the white and yolk missing. We either have an egg eater or a predator - the open gate to the yard leads me to believe the latter. Now, I'm baffled at all this because I am peculiarly cautious about security of my chickens. I had a really bad experience with a neighbor's dog and some pet ducks when I was a kid.

The next day in daylight I go out and look carefully for signs of a predator but see no sign. But that day my wife caught one of our two Rhode Island Reds up in the roosting area by the entrances to the nesting boxes. There are five of them right now, the chickens have been using two or three - laying in the same boxes or laying on some extra hay in the corner of the lower area. I don't care as long as I can find them.

In a box with eggs in it there are the remains of one eaten egg and another one cracked. The RIR has goop on the beak - looked like dried egg innards to me. I put her in isolation - if I was a prosecutor I'd have enough evidence for a conviction but I want to make sure. The next day no eaten eggs but I catch her in the cage about to go to town on one she just laid. I mention this only to give as much info as I can, it may or may not be pertinent, but it's like falling into a rose bush and trying to figure out which thorn stuck you.

Now, my hens were all born in February, they started laying by late May and have been prolific ever since. I have had ten layers - two Red Leghorns, four Barbed Rocks, Two Cornish Rocks, and two RIRs. We have averaged between 7-10 eggs a day. Until last Friday.

Since then we've been doing good to get four.

I'm at a loss to explain this. Weather/season change? It has been an extremely hot muggy summer in my part of Lower Alabama but our girls were at their peak production. The last 10-14 days the temp has dropped somewhat to a good comfort level and it has dried out, but it isn't cold. But the relative change might be a factor. The days have shortened about 30 minutes.

My birds seem perfectly healthy. All the breathing problems from the dusting have disappeared, their eyes are clear, crops and wattles look healthy, I've seen no sign of worms but did worm them as a preventative last month - any adverse effect on their laying should have shown signs by now. I checked a couple of birds out for mites and found none.

I thought perhaps some other hens were participating in egg eating activities but have scoured the coop and grounds several times a day and seen no sign of either shell remnants or a spot where the eggs contents spilled onto the ground or shavings or hay. My wife is concerned because several of them appear lethargic at times during the day; they all rush out when I let them out in the morning but she gets home from work around 1:00 pm and sees several of them laying around in the hay under the roosting area in a bunch. I am stumped. Again, they seem healthy but why the sudden dropoff in laying? I know I've run long but wanted to be thorough. Just wondering if we should wait it out hoping it will pass, but after reading some of the threads doing research I've learned that could be dangerous.

 

[BeachMomma]

Are they just laying down and cooling off like normal chickens do or are they for real lethargic? Have you tried electrolytes or vitamins in their water yet to see if that makes a difference?

 

[aart]

We've actually lost about 3 hours of daylight since the summer solstice....but yeah about 20 minutes in the last week.
First year layers usually continue to lay thru their first winter without supplemental lighting...but they may slow down.

You could still have an egg eater.
Do they free range? Might be laying out in range area.

Exactly what and how are you feeding?

The lounging is pretty normal, they'll do it more in the heat.
If they are eating drinking pooping normally, the lack of activity might not be a problem.
If I think a bird is acting especially lethargic, I take out some treats and see of that perks them up then observe for a half hour or so.

You said you dusted them..... why, when and are the bugs gone?

 

[Oldallamerican]

Another long one, but I will try to answer your questions: My wife is more concerned with their "lethargy" than I. They seem pretty spunky when I let them out in the morning (though more laid back than my younger brood next door who literally come flying out of the coop when I open it up). I see them peck around a bit, they just spend more time inside under the roosting area than they used to; but thinking about it they used to spend a lot of time in the heat in their favorite dusting area. But they did seem more active when we were pushing triple digit temps and heat indexes this summer than now when it's in a nice refreshing high 80s low 90s with a nice drop in humidity. My only concern about their laying around is if it might be coupled with the slowdown in production.

I am concerned about another egg eater, but again, I have seen no evidence and I am inspecting the coop carefully several times a day. If they are eating their eggs they are cleaning it up and being neat. But it is a real concern. Within the next day I am going to remodel the nesting boxes and add a couple more with inclined bottoms and egg catchers to allow the eggs to roll away to a safe collection area. I've been looking at examples online and think I've come up with a solution that will work for me - just in case. It might be a way for me to spare my convicted culprit who is currently in solitary. She's the only one I've caught, that doesn't mean others aren't involved, just don't have the evidence yet.

I don't free-range my chickens. As I've said, I had a pretty bad experience with ducks as a kid so am almost obsessive in security. We have too many predators around here for one thing and the guy down the road has chicken houses which attract them. So far they've been pretty good about leaving eggs where I can find them - either in the boxes or the haystack in the corner of the lower area if they are too lazy or in too much of a hurry to make the walk up to the boxes.

Feeding is mainly layer feed, with occasional treats such as scrap vegetables (that we have deemed safe for their consumption); the other day my wife put up some peppers and the birds loved the leavings from the chilis. I also have dried meal worms I sprinkle out there a couple times a week. Their feeding was off for a few days but seems to have returned to normal now.

I dusted the birds when I found some mites on a pullet my wife had bought from a local fellow we had just released into the other flock after quarantine. Even though the two groups are separated (I hope to bring them together soon - when the younger ones have grown a bit more and I am sure there is no health problem with either group) there is only a fence, I figured if that one had mites the others probably got them from her and better to be safe than sorry. But I checked two of the birds from the "problem" flock out the other day (since the dusting) and saw no sign of mites so don't figure as close as they all live any others have them.

Vitamins are never really a bad idea, I suppose - unless they are overdone. My wife suggested that so it might not hurt. As I said, I really wouldn't be concerned with their lying around if it wasn't for the decreased egg production and I don't know if I'm over-reacting to something normal; it's just I haven't messed with chickens since I was a kid and I'm learning there is so much more to it these days than we realized back then. Veterinarians aren't much help, I have a brother overseas who is a vet, and he will admit that unless a vet specializes there is no way they can be of much help because there are just so many types of animals and each is unique - most specialize with the ordinary pets.

We have four cattle and it is difficult to find a vet in our area who will come out and even administer routine vaccinations.

That is why I am grateful for this site and the advice you all offer; hopefully one day I will be able to give as well as receive.

 

[aart]

Maybe I missed how old your older layers are...but if they are near 18 months old they may be slowing down to molt.
So you have 2 separate flocks, one younger than the other...what are the ages of each flock?

Sometimes layer feed is not enough, it's minimum protein, especially if they are getting other foods regularly.



I like to feed a 'flock raiser' 20% protein crumble to all ages and genders, as non-layers(chicks, males and molting birds) do not need the extra calcium that is in layer feed and chicks and molters can use the extra protein. Makes life much simpler to store and distribute one type of chow that everyone can eat.

The higher protein crumble also offsets the 8% protein scratch grains and other kitchen/garden scraps I like to offer.

Calcium should be available at all times for the layers, I use oyster shell mixed with rinsed, dried, crushed chicken egg shells in a separate container.

Animal protein (mealworms, a little cheese - beware the salt content, meat scraps) is provided during molting and if I see any feather eating.

 

[Oldallamerican]

My 1st flock, the one giving me heartburn were hatched in the middle of February, so that makes them about seven months old. My 2nd flock was hatched on June 1st so they are about 2 1/2 months old.

I have the younger ones on Starter/Finisher Feed; the ones laying I put on layer feed which is supposed to have oyster shells in it. The scraps are not a mainstay of their diet - more a treat and my wife and I are alone now so there aren't really enough of them to make that big a difference, I think. I'm not opposed to buying crushed oyster shells and debated it, but have seen no problems with the strength/hardness of the shells. And the eggs have been great until last week. At least one of our hens (a red leghorn) consistently laid double yokers and our daughter-in-law called us last week excited telling us that one of her particularly large eggs turned out to be a TRIPLE yoker. Neither my wife or I have ever heard of that. I wish she had taken a pic because, as my wife said, without a pic a lot of folks wouldn't believe it.

I definitely agree on storing feed. Right now, as I said, I'm doing two feeds for my chickens (kind of impatient for the younger ones to get to where I can put them on the same page as the older birds) and a third feed for three pea-chicks (also hatched in June) - Game Bird Feed. I have color coded buckets to haul it out with so I don't get it confused.

A higher protein diet might be called for. The feed I'm currently using is at about 16% protein. I haven't had any reason to complain about the results until last week as my girls (and two guys) still look great and after talking here I don't think their behavior is that unusual (my wife is still not convinced) - just concerned about the eggs. Watching close for the feathers to fall or to see sign of eaten eggs.

I'll be modifying my nest boxes - I want to see if that makes a difference in how many eggs we get. Today I got four - down from an average of 8 - 10.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

High production hens need more protein than more leisurely layers, I stopped keeping sex links because my feeding and husbandry does not fit well with high production hens. Egg eating is usually a sign of protein deficiency, if it continues it will become near unbreakable. Make sure you have ceramic eggs or golf balls in your nests, pecking these can sometimes deter an egg eater. I would also switch your flock to a higher protein feed.

Another thing is boredom, sometimes chickens will have nothing better to do, especially if they are penned. You can give them things to pick and scratch around in, hay, chunks of sod, holes dug in the run, scratch, garden left overs, anything to keep them busy.

Most chickens will be busy for a while, then sit around, for part of the day, then they get busy during the afternoon before returning to the coop.

You definitely need to offer oyster shells, the lack of calcium is another reason for egg eating.

Amount of eggs layed will go up and down in most hens, many things will affect this, not all hens lay consistently.

 

[Oldallamerican]

I had considered the ceramic eggs. Will probably have to order them online.

Will also up the protein level in their feed. I guess I have another trip to the feed store. Thanks for all your advice. It really has given me food for thought.

 

[aart]

I had considered the ceramic eggs. Will probably have to order them online.

Will also up the protein level in their feed. I guess I have another trip to the feed store. Thanks for all your advice. It really has given me food for thought.

Just give them some of the starter.

 

[Oldallamerican]

I can definitely do that. Was considering adding some Game Bird feed I use for my peas, too - it's 24% protein - I figure mix it at about 1 to 3 ought to do the trick.