Moving Forward- Breeding for Resistance to Marek's Disease

[speckledhen]

Quote: Karen, I hope you're right. If I do have this in the flock, I can truly say I did all I could do to reasonably keep it and other contagious diseases out. But, since no one can see a microorganism, they can just float on in from wherever and I'd not know it.

There are folks on this forum, sadly, and you know it's true, that would take great pleasure in my flock coming down with a contagion after all I've preached about being careful, quarantining, etc. There are well-known breeders here who scoffed at my suggestions, literally bragged about never using quarantine and never having a problem, but then again, they only buy from other well-known breeders and they put an axe to the neck of any bird with symptoms so how would they know it's not in their flock?

If the worst happened, I could truly say, and I have said in the past, that a person can do it all, do everything humanly possible short of wearing a hazmat suit 24/7 outside the house, and germs can still find their way in, eventually. If this is as prevalent as it seems to be, especially in certain areas of the country, then the odds will catch up to many of us. Not an excuse to just open the floodgates and forget precautions, but just a fact of life.

You are right. Worrying won't change a thing. I just want to decide a course of action for myself. I'm really not sure yet what I would do, which course I would take with the flock, but you are all helping me with that. Thanks again for allowing me to be on the thread with you.

 

[sassybirds]

Great points, seminolewind.

And speckledhen- I'm in NE GA, near Cornelia.

The most frustrating thing about finding direction to take with your birds against the disease is that there is so much conflicting info. I have read where some say that vaccinated (but exposed/infected) birds do shed the virus, but less than an unvaccinated bird. The symptoms can be extremely variable, making it very hard to diagnose at home. For me, I had 8-14 week old birds affected. Mostly pullets. They became lethargic and began wasting away. I have only seen a couple with the classic neck/leg paralysis. I have not seen any skin lesions.

I can totally understand wanting to see things clearly to take the best course of action....I had more to say, but it's been a long day. I am tired and I have already had my bedtime glass of milk

 

[tridentk9]

USDA ARS current studies of Marek's. Not the papers, a listing of the current studies with a short synopsis of what they're doing in the study. Also includes scientist. A google or pubmed search of the scientost's name would get you any papers they've written. Sometimes if you write the author they'll send you a copy of the paper.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/projects_programs.htm?modecode=36-35-20-00

 

[speckledhen]

Great points, seminolewind.

And speckledhen- I'm in NE GA, near Cornelia.

The most frustrating thing about finding direction to take with your birds against the disease is that there is so much conflicting info. I have read where some say that vaccinated (but exposed/infected) birds do shed the virus, but less than an unvaccinated bird. The symptoms can be extremely variable, making it very hard to diagnose at home. For me, I had 8-14 week old birds affected. Mostly pullets. They became lethargic and began wasting away. I have only seen a couple with the classic neck/leg paralysis. I have not seen any skin lesions.

I can totally understand wanting to see things clearly to take the best course of action....I had more to say, but it's been a long day. I am tired and I have already had my bedtime glass of milk

You're only a little ways east of me, then, my new friend.

I'm with you, I'm bushed and drained from all this discussion today. I tried to watch the premiere of the new season of a show we like, but kept nodding off in the middle. Tomorrow is another day, as they say.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:

Karen, I hope you're right. If I do have this in the flock, I can truly say I did all I could do to reasonably keep it and other contagious diseases out. But, since no one can see a microorganism, they can just float on in from wherever and I'd not know it.

There are folks on this forum, sadly, and you know it's true, that would take great pleasure in my flock coming down with a contagion after all I've preached about being careful, quarantining, etc. There are well-known breeders here who scoffed at my suggestions, literally bragged about never using quarantine and never having a problem, but then again, they only buy from other well-known breeders and they put an axe to the neck of any bird with symptoms so how would they know it's not in their flock?

If the worst happened, I could truly say, and I have said in the past, that a person can do it all, do everything humanly possible short of wearing a hazmat suit 24/7 outside the house, and germs can still find their way in, eventually. If this is as prevalent as it seems to be, especially in certain areas of the country, then the odds will catch up to many of us. Not an excuse to just open the floodgates and forget precautions, but just a fact of life.

You are right. Worrying won't change a thing. I just want to decide a course of action for myself. I'm really not sure yet what I would do, which course I would take with the flock, but you are all helping me with that. Thanks again for allowing me to be on the thread with you.

Your hazmat made me laugh.

Whether you have it or NOT, it's certainly NOT because you were careless. You've taught so many people good things. I remember your first necropsies you posted. It gave me the courage to do a few.

People who will take pleasure in seeing someone suffer with their pets will have to explain that to St. Peter at Heaven's Pearly Gate. Marek's is a tragedy no matter how chickens got it. And the biggest sin is still knowingly selling exposed birds. And I know some of those people too.

 

[speckledhen]

Your hazmat made me laugh.

Whether you have it or NOT, it's certainly NOT because you were careless. You've taught so many people good things. I remember your first necropsies you posted. It gave me the courage to do a few.

People who will take pleasure in seeing someone suffer with their pets will have to explain that to St. Peter at Heaven's Pearly Gate. Marek's is a tragedy no matter how chickens got it. And the biggest sin is still knowingly selling exposed birds. And I know some of those people too.

You know, I adore you, Karen. You're a peach, you really are. I hope I've done good here and YOU certainly have! We try teach what we've had to live, both of us, you with Marek's and me with the internal laying/salpingitis/egg yolk peritonitis. And neither of us want to be the cause of someone else's heartache.

I'm making myself crazy over this disease now after seeing that odd liver in my one hen who died recently. The elderly, very clueless, woman who lives across from my 200' driveway built an overblown cage and got her two Golden Comet pullets, not sure where she got them, but I think they were a few weeks old when they came to her place. They are laying now, maybe 25 weeks old, or so? I don't talk to her, so no idea. She lets them roam on her corner property and I know they've been to my driveway gate, which is set about 10' up my driveway. Before that, it was her little Boston Terrier that was always roaming and she has a nice chain link fenced area, but no, I guess dogs must roam.

My DH went over there to return the two healthy-looking pullets who were seen scratching around at the drive gate, told her to keep them off our property, that it was a disease hazard for our flock, but you can tell she is just blank, doesn't get it, said she'd "try", but how can she? She can barely walk herself, lets them out and goes back inside. They walk on the gravel road that we must drive out onto to leave our property and walk down to get to our mailbox. Never mind the folks who are about 2 football fields down the mountain and have several flocks themselves-thankfully, those seem to be penned most all the time because they grow massive gardens and must keep them out of them. There are chickens everywhere in this county. And there is a Tyson grower less than 2 miles from us, plus others in this county and other counties around us. We can't control the world, only what we do. And as you can tell, I'm a control freak who hates being at the mercy of forces completely beyond my control.

Quote: This is what I want to avoid. I would never knowingly let a bird leave here that I knew had been exposed to something contagious of any kind. It wouldn't be convenient at this point in time, but not so terrible that I couldn't close the doors entirely and keep every bird here who is here now, though I have two little cockerels I certainly do NOT need. I just don't know what to do when a broody is trying to kill herself and insists on hatching chicks. And that always leads to extra birds, especially the males.

 

[chooks4life]

USDA ARS current studies of Marek's. Not the papers, a listing of the current studies with a short synopsis of what they're doing in the study. Also includes scientist. A google or pubmed search of the scientost's name would get you any papers they've written. Sometimes if you write the author they'll send you a copy of the paper.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/projects_programs.htm?modecode=36-35-20-00

Interesting links, thanks for sharing. I thought this was an interesting quote from one of those sources you linked to:
Quote: Approach:
Control of Marek’s disease (MD), a T-cell lymphoma induced by the Marek’s disease virus (MDV), is of particular concern to the poultry industry.

Since the 1960s, MDV has evolved to higher virulence probably due to the selective pressure of MD vaccines that do not prevent viral replication or spread.

Consequently, there is a need to (1) understand how MDV evolves and evades the immune system, and (2) develop alternative strategies to augment current MD control methods. In this project, we define four interrelated objectives to help achieve these goals.

First, we continue to enhance and curate the East Lansing (EL) chicken genetic map, which provides the foundation for the chicken genome assembly and many of our molecular genetic studies.

Second, we use genomic approaches to identify quantitative trait loci (QTL) and candidate genes that confer genetic resistance or vaccinal immunity to MD. In addition, we explore the potential role of the gut microbial community on the chicken immune response.

Third, we evaluate an in vivo model for MDV virulence evolution and if successful, ask the question whether increased virulence is restricted to specific major histocompatibility (MHC) haplotypes.

And fourth, in an effort to help preserve our unique experimental genetic lines and expand their utility, we address whether alternative husbandry practices will improve reproductive fitness.

Sounds to me like they're on much of the same warpath we are, whatever directions we're all approaching the target from; can't wait for such tests, and the results, to be affordable and utilizable for everyone. I found a German site which sells all sorts of genetic tests for home use, covering everything from human to various animal diseases etc, but they want to sell in the hundreds of units... Still, looks comparatively quite cheap, perhaps an option in future for some.

Our efforts are greatly enhanced by the availability of genomic tools especially next generation sequencing (NGS).

THIS sounds interesting. ^

If successful, this project will provide a number of products including (1) more genetic markers and an enhanced genetic map, (2) candidate genes conferring MD resistance or vaccinal response for evaluation in commercial breeding lines, (3) a laboratory model for MDV evolution, (4) specific knowledge on how MDV evolves and evades the host, and (5) experimental chicken lines with improved fitness. Ultimately, the poultry industry and US consumers will benefit by the production of safe and economical products.

Sounds like a great project, wish them every success. And speedily.

 

[seminolewind]

Cynthia, you are making yourself crazy. Sometimes things have some hidden positives in them. With all the chickens living in the area, if there was the scant chance of a wild bird depositing Marek's , it would be just enough to make all your chickens resistant. Not that this happened, but you would be blissfully ignorant like the thousands of other chicken owners. This is why it's so hard to contain the virus. You can't know .

What some of us have noticed is the possibility of concentration of virus making differences. I think if chickens are not bombarded with the virus, they have a chance to build resistance. In fact many knowledgeable vets claim most chickens are exposed at some point in their lives.

A sorry looking liver can be from a hundred different things.

You are one of the most respected members on here . Just with you bringing this subject up, I imagine thousands of members are reading this and being educated. Gosh , Cynthia, if you break a fingernail here, thousands of people read your posts about it, LOL. With Marek's there's only so much you can do. Education is the biggest way to fight this illness. In over 100 years, very little has been done to deal with this. Right now, it's just a vaccine that protects against the symptoms.

 

[speckledhen]

Cynthia, you are making yourself crazy. Sometimes things have some hidden positives in them. With all the chickens living in the area, if there was the scant chance of a wild bird depositing Marek's , it would be just enough to make all your chickens resistant. Not that this happened, but you would be blissfully ignorant like the thousands of other chicken owners. This is why it's so hard to contain the virus. You can't know .

What some of us have noticed is the possibility of concentration of virus making differences. I think if chickens are not bombarded with the virus, they have a chance to build resistance. In fact many knowledgeable vets claim most chickens are exposed at some point in their lives.

A sorry looking liver can be from a hundred different things.

You are one of the most respected members on here . Just with you bringing this subject up, I imagine thousands of members are reading this and being educated. Gosh , Cynthia, if you break a fingernail here, thousands of people read your posts about it, LOL. With Marek's there's only so much you can do. Education is the biggest way to fight this illness. In over 100 years, very little has been done to deal with this. Right now, it's just a vaccine that protects against the symptoms.

Thank you so much, Karen. Yes, I am making myself crazy, you're right. Nothing I can do about any of it. And it was only by chance that I decided to open up that hen, who I thought had an early, unexpected case of egg yolk peritonitis or had been poisoned somehow. I almost didn't. But, you know me, I just had to know.

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

Reminds me of this:





Golly, I hope I don't bore the membership with "broken fingernails"! Oh, my! LOL.

 

[seminolewind]

I would think that if a liver presented with Marek's, it would be covered in tumors.
With your egg yolk peritonitis, I have often thought of what might tie those hens together. I think those hatchery chicks come from eggs that come from farms that breed super egg layers. Which could eventually damage their reproductive health.

No no boring stuff from you. In fact it's nice that a few people like you continue to post things that happen in your life with chickens and your personal life as well. I've been amazed at how high your thread count goes with things like Suede, Zane, your girls with egg peritonitis, your fire, heck, even your new stove!

It was even your fault that I got addicted to Ruth's journey into that Antebellum mansion, and boy did she post a lot of pictures. She keeps it up on her blog.

And the amount of people who are gaining an education about the subject of Marek's. I and others I know would never attain the numbers of people we try to educate, but the numbers will be greater now because of you posting you're concerns.

That's the nice thing about BYC, the contributions members make to all the subjects. Can't get an education like this anywhere else!