Mushy crop + possible worm in drool?? Can i treat her for BOTH yeast and worms ASAP to be safe???

[annaleone27]

First, I want to say THANK YOU to EVERYONE on this forum, I have had my chickens for about 7 months now and I have found this forum EXTREMELY helpful in putting together their setup, diet, health, etc. THANK YOU!

I am posting because my orpington's unique combination of symptoms didn't quite match the posts i saw here already. and her symptoms are alarming... and i want to take care of her ASAP!!!

FACTS:

1) She is a 7 month old lavender orpington. She lives with her 3 (step) sisters who are the same age and various breeds in my Florida backyard with an (oversized) enclosed coop and (oversized) run with daily supervised yard-roaming. Admittedly, i could be better about putting more grass/debris/straw in their muddy run, but it rains every stinkin day in florida and its quickly destroyed and they roam the yard a LOT. not an excuse, just sharing facts to help her diagnosis!!

2) She is already very mellow-tempered, always has been. I have not noticed anything abnormal up until this morning when i let her and her sisters out, she tried to jump up on the porch and missed. I immediately picked her up to inspect her and that's when i noticed the drool, wobbliness, and large and very mushy crop (especially for the morning). She is still hungry and eating grass, and drinking water, but i am definitely spooked. So i told my boss i have an issue to take care of and I began my research.

3) her drool wasn't stinky. however, i didnt think to smell it when i first saw it, and she stopped drooling 15 mins later, but even her beak and wet drool patch on her chest from earlier that morning didnt smell like anything at all. (so...maybe its not sour crop??)

4) IMPORTANT: I saw something that looked like a worm in her drool. it was about a centimeter long, white, and skinny. it didnt look like the super long tapeworms i'm seeing online, but it could have maybe been a cecal worm? the worm didn't move at all. i put it aside to look back at later and take a photo but i can't find it anymore. NO the other girls didnt eat it, i separated them when i saw that thing ASAP!


SO, trying to decide now what the BEST course of action is!!

QUESTIONS:
1) if i'm not SURE it was a worm/she has worms, is there any harm in treating her with anyway with a multi-type-of-worm medicine today? (i'm seeing Safeguard as one of the best suggestions) (if so, i will definitely treat the other chickens as well as preventative, since i'll have to be tossing all eggs anyway)

2) if i'm not SURE she has sour crop, is there any harm in treating her with medistatin or miconozole anyway??


Thank you everyone for helping my beloved Martha!!!! I'll be checking these responses like a crazy lady all day! <3

 

[azygous]

I would treat for both. Sour crop doesn't usually stink in the early stages. With your warm, moist and muddy conditions, it's also possible she has coccidiosis. You might treat for that, as well.

 

[annaleone27]

thank you!!

I read that treating with antibiotics can sometimes make the fungal infection/yeast/sour crop WORSE.... is ivermectin an antibiotic, and would that worsen the sour crop if I use it to kill the worms?

 

[dawg53]

I can relate with the deluges we're getting. Sand is the way to go in chicken pens. I have sand in the coops as well. A dump truck load is around $275-$300.
The muddy run is worm soup and by the sound of it, you might be dealing with capillary worms in the crop and/or esophagus.
Ivermectin is a wormer and I do not recommend using it.
Use Safeguard liquid goat wormer and administer it orally to your chickens using a syringe without a needle. Dosage is .25ml per pound or 1.25ml for a 5 pound hen given orally for 5 days.
It is more effective dosing your birds before they eat in the mornings.

 

[annaleone27]

thank you for the replies!

I am getting safeguard today.

I was able to get her to take 3/4 teaspoon of clortrimazole to fight the sour crop yesterday. i did give her water with ACV and garlic water added to it but that's it. she hasn't eaten otherwise (except for a few small pieces of grass she can bite through the fence of her containment, she's still hungry which is a good sign i think...? but very wobbly, her belly is covered in poop this morning shes always one of the cleanest hens too...)

This morning, her crop is still HUGE and mushy and i am super super worried.

Now what... do i keep giving her the clortrimazole and no food, and see if it does anything today?

Do i attempt to vomit her? (which im TERRIFIED to do since it's so dangerous)

helppp

 

[Aapomp831]

thank you for the replies!

I am getting safeguard today.

I was able to get her to take 3/4 teaspoon of clortrimazole to fight the sour crop yesterday. i did give her water with ACV and garlic water added to it but that's it. she hasn't eaten otherwise (except for a few small pieces of grass she can bite through the fence of her containment, she's still hungry which is a good sign i think...? but very wobbly, her belly is covered in poop this morning shes always one of the cleanest hens too...)

This morning, her crop is still HUGE and mushy and i am super super worried.

Now what... do i keep giving her the clortrimazole and no food, and see if it does anything today?

Do i attempt to vomit her? (which im TERRIFIED to do since it's so dangerous)

helppp

DO NOT try and vomit your hen. Their lungs are too close and they could easily aspirate. I’m not sure about this one completely... in sour crop, whatever you give them isn’t going down so idk if working her would actually work. All I know is don’t vomit her. That’s for the very beginning stages and still dangerous.

 

[annaleone27]

thanks - i won't vomit her then.

will a crop bra help at this stage? it's been mushy for maybe 2-3 days and not emptying on its own.

any suggestions for getting her to eat the zole medicine? she will not let me touch her beak (unless i really pin her down which i haven't done yet). she also won't take any food form me now that looks like there's medicine in it, ill keep trying to mix it with stuff though.

 

[RainbowHen]

thanks - i won't vomit her then.

will a crop bra help at this stage? it's been mushy for maybe 2-3 days and not emptying on its own.

any suggestions for getting her to eat the zole medicine? she will not let me touch her beak (unless i really pin her down which i haven't done yet). she also won't take any food form me now that looks like there's medicine in it, ill keep trying to mix it with stuff though.

You will have to syringe all meds if she is not eating. She will not recover if she doesn't get meds in her. I'm rooting for you!

 

[annaleone27]

You will have to syringe all meds if she is not eating. She will not recover if she doesn't get meds in her. I'm rooting for you!

thank you! i will post updates here so others can see what's working/what's not.

just ordered 2 other "zole" creams, a 2% and a 4%, hoping that maybe getting some of that into her will be better than the 1% one i am currently using. maybe it'll taste different enough too..

also doing a complete coop/run overhaul, raking out EVERYTHING and laying fresh dry pine shavings and/or hay, so that the other girls don't get sick too.

 

[annaleone27]

Update: THANK YOU all, I think all these treatments worked!! I'll post a little info here, in case it helps anyone else in the future!


Day 1: super huge mushy crop, super wobbly/weak. gave 0 food, but unlimited access to water with ACV, garlic and oregano oil added to it. separated from flock. tried to get her to eat miconazole, unnsuccessful.

Day 2: crop still huge and mushy. Bought 3-day 4% monistat, gave her 1 day's worth of it (half in the morning, half at night). i could not get the force-feeding to work. after trying like 7 different ways/worms/foods to trick her into eating it, she finally ate it when i mixed the cream with red wiggler worms that i chopped in half before giving to her so that they were extra wiggly and extra coated in cream and she gobbled them up. I massaged her crop each time she ate the medicine, not sure if that helped, but i heard it did for some people. still no access to food.

Day 3: woke up with a noticeably smaller and harder crop!! but still not empty. gave 2nd dose of monistat, unlimited access to water with the same additives. gave her about half a scrambled egg.

Day 4: 3rd and final dose of monistat (half in morning, half at night). crop even smaller and less mushy. gave her 1 scrambled egg mixed with greek yogurt.

Day 5: woke up with a mostly empty crop!!! hallelujah!! she was starving but i didn't let her eat what she wanted, just gave her 2 scrambled eggs mixed with greek yogurt. i felt like there was still some mush in her crop, so i gave her some extra 2% zole cream with a worm.

Day 6: empty crop again in the morning!! still not giving her unlimited access to her normal grainy food, just 2 scrambled eggs mixed with greek yogurt. and a plain worm for being a good girl. YAYYYY


Worming: I gave all 4 girls Safeguard. I noticed one of them gaping at night on the chicken cam, keeping an eye on her. I'm going to do the stronger 5-day-in-a-row dosing of Safeguard, just to be safe. Tossing all eggs for 2 weeks.

Coop: Overhauled the coop and run, basically powerwashed the coop inside and out, raked out ALL poopy dirt, spread 2 huge bags of pine shavings on the floor of the run and inside the coop. 3 days later it was back to disgusting though, so i'm going to need some other changes. maybe a roof over the run? some kind of hard floor that is not the natural dirt ground? we'll see.

THANK YOU to all on this forum, and i hope this little diary helps you with your chickens in the future! Feel free to ask me anything about what worked and i'd be happy to share my experience!!