My Dog turned Killer

[Appylover]

Have not read all the advise but what I have read is pretty good from my stand point. One thing I would do is have her examined by a vet for any thing that could cause this change in behavior. If all is clear start her training. I have a dog that seems to like the chickens for the most part but I am not taking chances in her being left alone with them. She is of course a rather large dog and even in play could kill easily.

Also people tend to forget that poodles are a bird dog. Which means a lot of them have a high prey drive.
I do not agree its the blood that causes a dog to go apey and start killing. Its the game. But once the game turns into "Oh I can actually eat this feathered squeaky toy" they will keep after it. My rule is dogs do not get any blood from a fresh chicken. If I am butchering any out I put the dog away. I do not want her to think about the chickens as food.

Yesterday before I could clean up all of the feathers and pieces from my nieghbors dogs, Allie (my dog) grabbed a wing part. Screaming like a banshie and running at her waving my hands like a moron made her drop and run pretty fast. Then we worked on not eating anything with feathers still attached.

 

[centrarchid]

Have not read all the advise but what I have read is pretty good from my stand point. One thing I would do is have her examined by a vet for any thing that could cause this change in behavior. If all is clear start her training. I have a dog that seems to like the chickens for the most part but I am not taking chances in her being left alone with them. She is of course a rather large dog and even in play could kill easily.

Also people tend to forget that poodles are a bird dog. Which means a lot of them have a high prey drive.
I do not agree its the blood that causes a dog to go apey and start killing. Its the game. But once the game turns into "Oh I can actually eat this feathered squeaky toy" they will keep after it. My rule is dogs do not get any blood from a fresh chicken. If I am butchering any out I put the dog away. I do not want her to think about the chickens as food.

Yesterday before I could clean up all of the feathers and pieces from my nieghbors dogs, Allie (my dog) grabbed a wing part. Screaming like a banshie and running at her waving my hands like a moron made her drop and run pretty fast. Then we worked on not eating anything with feathers still attached.

My German short-haired pointer is allowed to eat chicken remains as well as remains of varmints he and / or I kill. Feathers can still be on carcass. It is not practical to stop since dog robs the cache of red fox that gets neighors chickens. He can still be trusted with chickens day and night without supervision. You still need to convince dog not to improperly handle live birds. Poodles, being very smart like my bird dog should be quite trainable in that regard.

 

[FireTigeris]

I have leash training vid- it's not very good, it's in my siggy...

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LncnJOuZfXEfUrMyf_G_OdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite

Not sure that's going to work...

 

[DeannaOR]

Dainerra, What ever works for you is great. The dog was not harmed and it did stop her from chasing chickens. It did scare her enough that she never did it again. Was she afraid after that whenever she got near a chicken....No. She and the chickens got alone fine for the rest of her life. It took about 30 seconds to teach her that killing chickens was not a good game to play. I wasn't saying anybody should beat a dog or any other animals. Putting a little fear in them know and then if necessary isn't going harm them. She remained a well loved part of the family for 15 years. BTW there is a big difference between a dog and a child.

I disagree...why people continue to perpetuate this advice baffles me.

 

[Appylover]

I feed my dog raw. But I do not want to encourage any prey drive she may have. Being a mix of aussie and american staffordshire terrier I AM worried she will see the chickens as a food source. She shows an interest in the birds but pays attention to me. Of course her main interest is when they walk to close she sneaks a slurp in on them. She is also bad about eating their feed. She has also been known to bring me fallen sparrows alive and will lay by them and try to nurse them. Does the same with kittens, puppies, chicks that escaped the brooder and were found on my staircase, and one baby rabbit that was screaming for dear life. Im a worry wart though and she IS a high prey drive mix. I am scared one false chomp and its all over for the feathery squeaky toys.

I remember a story my mother told about her collie as a kid. Apparently the collie a show dog was great at escaping his kennel. He would go over and kill and eat a chicken across the street. The nieghbor dusted his chickens with ceyanne pepper powder and something else. Apparently the dog found this to be nasty as all get out and stopped killing the birds. Now I am not sure dusting a bird with a caustic substance is a good idea but maybe there is something out there that can be used to make the bird less tasty.

Also I normally just have to tell her drop it and she drops what ever is in her mouth. I was a bit traumatized cleaning up what was left of my birds and running the culprits off after they tried to return to eat the rest of them.

 

[dainerra]

I always hear that "he tasted blood" now he will be a killer.
Rayden grew up on a raw meat diet. He's too old to keep up now but when he was younger he loved to munch on the wild rabbits that ventured into our fenced yard. He still loves to give them a good chase when his old limbs are up to it.
Yup vicious killer...



Dogs are smarter than we think. The problem comes from irresponsible owners who either ignore that dogs are animals and NOT little people in fur coats or just don't bother to train them at all.
Yes, there are going to be some dogs that, especially unsupervised, aren't going to be able to be trusted. Those situations are still pretty easy to manage; it simply takes some responsibility on the part of their owner.
And dogs can't reason like people so if you grab a dead animal and start beating them with it all they know is that you are an insane lunatic. If you scare the dog bad enough, yes they may never touch a bird again. But they haven't LEARNED anything - you haven't TRAINED them anything. Also, if the dog isn't a fairly submissive animal? You run the risk of them turning and tearing you to pieces.
Rayden is a sweetheart but I wouldn't advise anyone to try beating him with a dead bird unless you want to be a blood donor.

 

[FireTigeris]

(off to start a 'raw diet' thread in Pets section)

I don't care how many years that Dawn the greyhound is 'good' around my rabbits- I will never leaver her unsupervised around my rabbits (in fact never even supervised w/o a dog proof barrier right now) as that's inviting her to fail, she was track trained to chase, she shows this playing with other dogs and with the free range roosters which is why she's on leash training- but the rabbits get a whole other level of attention, and I wouldn't do that to her. She's doing well to call of the outside of the pen when she fixes... *sigh*

Anyone that leaves the chickens and dogs together, even for 30 seconds and returns to dead chicken(s) should take a chicken and beat themselves with it,

Quote: Someone else online here, paraphrased


it would only take a chicken going by Dawn it to startle and run and her to snap at it and actually connect- then there's screaming squeak toy chicken and blood and panic form the others and lots of 'fun' for her. Some other noise in some other property, a limb falling, a car backfires, a gun is fired, a hawk calls, anything can make chickens scramble- they are.... well chicken... and that motion is trained into my track rescue dog to chase, both by human training and by instinct.

beating a dog after the fact teaches humans make pain and take resources- it might cause food aggression or human aggression, and It may cause then to continue to kill but hide the bodies because the human will steal it and hurt them with it. It may cause then to avoid chickens when humans are around... or nothing may happen... or they might leave chickens alone until they forget.

It's like smearing a dog's nose in an accident, some people leave there small dogs inside only for 8-10 hours (or more) with free food and water then rub the dog in the mess they made because they couldn't hold it anymore.

We just made a similar mistake when the pet sitter could only come over every 12 hours- the dogs were not punished- it was our fault- we deep cleaned the house and are starting over housebreaking... *sigh*

I wish you the best luck in training your dog, poodles are people pleasers and it should go quickly once she understands the rule. (never unsupervised again)

 

[dainerra]

FireTigris exactly! I'm a huge believer in sitting the dog up to succeed. I've given that advice before when it comes to housebreaking. If your dog has an accident in the house, roll up a newspaper and beat yourself with it. In cases like this, it is always a failure on the part of the owner. Yes, I know that accidents happen but that doesn't make it the dog's fault.

 

[Appylover]

I said I liked all the advise given was a bit over the top. NEVER beat any animal with a dead bird. I have trained my own for years. Dogs that is. Never professionally but with good results on my own. With training she is a very well behaved never beaten by us dog who will drop the tastiest bit of meat on command. Its like leaving a baby alone with any dog. It probably wont happen. But why take the chance. Allie even now with her I trust her 110% not to attack a baby I have it in the back of my head WHAT IF? So she is never left alone with the chickens or small children. And in return I do not have to worry about the WHAT IFs. Now mess with her family and she will put the bite down on an ankle and jerk your feet out from under you. Wierd dog.

 

[FireTigeris]

I said I liked all the advise given was a bit over the top. NEVER beat any animal with a dead bird. I have trained my own for years. Dogs that is. Never professionally but with good results on my own. With training she is a very well behaved never beaten by us dog who will drop the tastiest bit of meat on command. Its like leaving a baby alone with any dog. It probably wont happen. But why take the chance. Allie even now with her I trust her 110% not to attack a baby I have it in the back of my head WHAT IF? So she is never left alone with the chickens or small children. And in return I do not have to worry about the WHAT IFs. Now mess with her family and she will put the bite down on an ankle and jerk your feet out from under you. Wierd dog.

Exactly my 2.5 year old son is in danger of starting rough play with the dogs w/o understanding what that means, he is not allowed unsupervised with any animals, though supervised is is mostly gentle- except Harry the cat (fully clawed) who my son tries to drag around by the tail... (My son gets corrected for this).

Oh we can train the birds too- I train both -I feed the birds near where I am going to do leash training (other side of the hardware cloth), after withholding morning rations the birds are too busy eating to worry about the dog walking around them- calm bird, calm dogs good experience!!