My flock has respiratory symptoms. What do I do?!

[forfarhill]

Hi all
I currently have around 20 chickens of varying breeds and ages (POL pullets to older hens, and 3 roosters), mainly hatched and raised by me with a few adult introductions form reputable breeders after a quarantine.
I’ve noticed some sneezing and clear nasal discharge, and also dust and bedding sticking to the nares of some of the chickens on and off over the last 6 months. I was not too concerned as none of the chickens were activity ill and were happy and healthy looking-and the symptoms never really stuck around at all. I recently bought some gorgeous POL Hamburg pullets, I isolated them for three weeks and then did a fence introduction.
One of the pullets has now developed severe respiratory symptoms, gasping, rattly breathing and clear nasal discharge, shortly after one of my other hens was sickly but no rattling or gasping. I’ve isolated the two I’ll chickens. I have rung the vet and have been prescribed powdered antibiotics for the water and am giving the sickest pullet pain killer and anti-inflammatory medication. The vet has advised a week of antibiotics before reassessing.

I am deeply concerned after doing some research I have picked up some kind of virus that I will never get rid of, even though I have been careful in buying stock of reputable breeders and also using quarantine procedures. My question now is what should I do next? My aim is to breed quality stock to sell and show, which I can’t do if I have a hidden respiratory disease. I also can’t rebuy my more valuable stock as they are generally unavailable and quite expensive. The obvious answer is to cull and start over but as mentioned above this is not really an option. So my other options are:
* test to see what I’m dealing with and then do one of the following
* cull all visibly affected stock and vaccinate if able
* hire a 100+ egg incubator and hatch a heap of eggs and cull all adult stock (disinfect the coops etc and keep babies in their own area for 3+ months)
* wave the white flag

What would you all recommenced? I’m pretty devastated with all the money and time I’ve put in....not to mention caution with any bird introductions. Any advice is very welcome.

Regards,
Vanessa

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I’ve noticed some sneezing and clear nasal discharge, and also dust and bedding sticking to the nares of some of the chickens on and off over the last 6 months. I was not too concerned as none of the chickens were activity ill and were happy and healthy looking-and the symptoms never really stuck around at all.

recently bought some gorgeous POL Hamburg pullets, I isolated them for three weeks and then did a fence introduction.
One of the pullets has now developed severe respiratory symptoms, gasping, rattly breathing and clear nasal discharge, shortly after one of my other hens was sickly but no rattling or gasping.

have been prescribed powdered antibiotics for the water and am giving the sickest pullet pain killer and anti-inflammatory medication. The vet has advised a week of antibiotics before reassessing.

I am deeply concerned after doing some research I have picked up some kind of virus that I will never get rid of, even though I have been careful in buying stock of reputable breeders and also using quarantine procedures.

My question now is what should I do next? My aim is to breed quality stock to sell and show, which I can’t do if I have a hidden respiratory disease. I also can’t rebuy my more valuable stock as they are generally unavailable and quite expensive. The obvious answer is to cull and start over but as mentioned above this is not really an option. So my other options are:
* test to see what I’m dealing with and then do one of the following
* cull all visibly affected stock and vaccinate if able
* hire a 100+ egg incubator and hatch a heap of eggs and cull all adult stock (disinfect the coops etc and keep babies in their own area for 3+ months)
* wave the white flag

What would you all recommenced? I’m pretty devastated with all the money and time I’ve put in....not to mention caution with any bird introductions. Any advice is very welcome.

I'm sorry to hear that you are dealing with something like this.

It sounds like your new pullets picked up something from your existing flock.
If you don't mind, which respiratory disease does your vet think you might be dealing with? What antibiotics did he prescribe? Is your vet an Avian Vet well versed in poultry diseases? If he is, have him run some tests to find out what you have. If not, then contact your state lab to find out how to send some samples in.

What state do you live in, I will be glad to help you look up your state lab.
What breeds are you raising?

You face some difficult decisions ahead and I think you need to think it all through and have much more information before you make any concrete decisions. Do close your flock for now - this means don't bring in any new birds or eggs and no birds, eggs or chicks leaves your property period. Get testing so you know exactly what you are dealing with - this information will help you make decisions on what to do next.

 

[forfarhill]

I agree that they picked it up from my existing flock, I suspect the original culprit was a prize rooster I bought from a very renowned breeder. The mild symptoms showed up initially after his quarantine and subsequent introduction but I had cleaned the coop and stirred up a lot of dust and changed the bedding from hay to sawdust at the same time so I thought that was probably it.

Its the local large animal vet I’m currently dealing with, they have said they can test it if I like, which I’m thinking maybe is the next step, but as you said I want to test for the right thing before I make anymore decisions. I’m pretty sure the antibiotic being used is Chlortetracycline, although it’s in a plastic baggie so I can’t be sure!

I’m in Australia unfortunately so I have no idea who I should be going to!

It’s just so sad, my poor birds! And wallet

Regards,
Vanessa

 

[Sequel]

I agree that they picked it up from my existing flock, I suspect the original culprit was a prize rooster I bought from a very renowned breeder. The mild symptoms showed up initially after his quarantine and subsequent introduction but I had cleaned the coop and stirred up a lot of dust and changed the bedding from hay to sawdust at the same time so I thought that was probably it.

Its the local large animal vet I’m currently dealing with, they have said they can test it if I like, which I’m thinking maybe is the next step, but as you said I want to test for the right thing before I make anymore decisions. I’m pretty sure the antibiotic being used is Chlortetracycline, although it’s in a plastic baggie so I can’t be sure!

I’m in Australia unfortunately so I have no idea who I should be going to!

It’s just so sad, my poor birds! And wallet

Regards,
Vanessa

I'm so sorry Vanessa! You have some very good help from Wyorp Rock! I wish you the best with your flock!

Cathy

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I agree that they picked it up from my existing flock, I suspect the original culprit was a prize rooster I bought from a very renowned breeder. The mild symptoms showed up initially after his quarantine and subsequent introduction but I had cleaned the coop and stirred up a lot of dust and changed the bedding from hay to sawdust at the same time so I thought that was probably it.

Its the local large animal vet I’m currently dealing with, they have said they can test it if I like, which I’m thinking maybe is the next step, but as you said I want to test for the right thing before I make anymore decisions. I’m pretty sure the antibiotic being used is Chlortetracycline, although it’s in a plastic baggie so I can’t be sure!

I’m in Australia unfortunately so I have no idea who I should be going to!

It’s just so sad, my poor birds! And wallet

Regards,
Vanessa

I see. Your vet is probably your best bet for testing. Do you have an Agricultural Ministry, Department of Agriculture or Veterinarian College close by? Sometimes one of those also performs testing or can at least point you to the right place, but if the vet says they can do it, I would go with that.

You would want the to test for respiratory disease of course, but I wonder if you need to specify which ones? Mycoplasma, Infectious Bronchitis, ILT, Infectious Coryza and Newcastle Disease would probably cover it.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

I am so sorry. I can't imagine what you are going through right now. Please keep us posted and let us know what you find out.

 

[forfarhill]

Okay the vet has given me some Tylan for the worst ones (Hamburgs! The others are less effected). The advice has been to not test unless I can’t clear it up with treatment, apparently pretty much all the flocks have it-including the show and stud flocks! I think I will get tested once another bird comes down with symptoms, no one seems to know exactly how I should be testing so I’m going to consult a poultry vet for that.
I was also wondering if any of these respiratory diseases show with no eye symptoms or swelling of the face as mine have neither eyes nor face swelling. Just sneezing, clear discharge (like water) and the worst three are rattly.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Okay the vet has given me some Tylan for the worst ones (Hamburgs! The others are less effected). The advice has been to not test unless I can’t clear it up with treatment, apparently pretty much all the flocks have it-including the show and stud flocks! I think I will get tested once another bird comes down with symptoms, no one seems to know exactly how I should be testing so I’m going to consult a poultry vet for that.
I was also wondering if any of these respiratory diseases show with no eye symptoms or swelling of the face as mine have neither eyes nor face swelling. Just sneezing, clear discharge (like water) and the worst three are rattly.

Disease like Mycoplasma responds fairly well to Tylan. Infectious Bronchitis is a virus and has to run it's course. There's no way to know what you have without testing. Birds will still be carriers even if they get well.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

Sorry, I'm going to have to rant a little - While I think I understand your vet's line of "thinking" that "all flocks have it - including show and stud flocks" that makes me cringe to be honest and I disagree. That's almost like saying no worries, everyone has it so just go ahead and do what you do - spread it around more. If you look at these forums, especially when chick season really starts up, you will see a lot of heartbroken posts here - people buy chick(en)s from shows or "breeders" and find out they are sick. They bring home birds they think are healthy only to introduce something nasty and contagious to their existing flock. This is how disease continues to spread.
eh...to each his own I suppose. This is why I don't go to shows period and would have to do some hard thinking to ever buy birds from a breeder. Rant over.

 

[forfarhill]

I actually agree with you, my big concern now is how I would actually source disease free stock as everyone seems very blase about it and there is no certified or tested free studs. I have found a protocol for producing disease free eggs by feeding antibiotics and then getting rid of the adult birds allowing the coop at least a few weeks to air as the virus only live for a few days away from the chickens.
The first thing is to get a test and figure out if this is what I’m dealing with.
I suspect that it’ll be all but impossible to source disease free stock to restart with so I may just keep my current lot as layers and then destroy them when they stop producing. Maybe then I’ll just buy some standard hatchery egg layers and forget about the stud breeding.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I actually agree with you, my big concern now is how I would actually source disease free stock as everyone seems very blase about it and there is no certified or tested free studs. I have found a protocol for producing disease free eggs by feeding antibiotics and then getting rid of the adult birds allowing the coop at least a few weeks to air as the virus only live for a few days away from the chickens.
The first thing is to get a test and figure out if this is what I’m dealing with.
I suspect that it’ll be all but impossible to source disease free stock to restart with so I may just keep my current lot as layers and then destroy them when they stop producing. Maybe then I’ll just buy some standard hatchery egg layers and forget about the stud breeding.

Finding out what you are dealing I think would be your first step. I do understand you are in a situation where it may be very difficult to find disease free stock.

Something like Mycoplasma can be transmitted into the embryo of hatching eggs, while others like Infectious Bronchitis is not transmitted that way. See what I mean?
Now, I think you do have less risk with hatching eggs out, but you would still want to observe strict biosecurity and practice quarantine between your existing "parent stock" and the chicks that hatch - or you would just really start all over. Make sense?

I'm not trying to be harsh or anything like that. There are plenty of people that have closed flocks that carry disease. And they have learned to manage them - either through culling birds that become symptomatic and only keeping birds that do not show symptoms (of course they are still carriers, but it's thought these have built some resistance) or if they have Mycoplasma, they use Denagard (Tiamulin) once a month for 3 days to help keep symptoms under control (maintenance). These are things to look into once you figure out "which" disease you have. I am not a vet, but I would suspect it's either Mycoplasma or Infectious Bronchitis, but could be wrong.

Please do let us know if you get testing. I do hope you can find a solution. I would like for you to continue with your stock and breeding. I still can't imagine what it's like to be in your shoes

 

[forfarhill]

I'm going to chase the vet up after easter for a blood test (apparently that's how they test for Mycoplasma?) and whatever else they need for IB. Then I'll know and can decide what to do accordingly.

I ultimately want to have a disease free flock if I can....the idea of sourcing all the birds I would need to start again is very daunting......especially as I was just about to close my flock permanently as I had acquired all the stock required. But I can always make the choice once I know....maybe I'll just have some pretty backyard laying stock for myself.