My goat ate chicken feed, hard to wake up, help!

[helmstead]

Also jumping in to counter...

I agree totally with Username...withholding water is never a good idea! Also a dose of Pen, I have no clue why this is advised...but I do know this is how drug resistance started...

Also, GasX??? Why not use Bloat Release, a product intended for goats? Oil is perfect for frothy bloat, too...

ESF - keep your goats OUT of the chicken feed! Please learn from other's mistakes here - even over the long term it is doing damage if it doesn't immediately cause a bloat or acidosis. Also...you say you have at least one young goat (under 1 year)...growing goats need a lot more goat feed than what you're doing for healthy development. For example, my youngsters get no less than 1 cup daily of goat of the medicated goat feed and free choice alfalfa.

Stepping off the old soapbox!

 

[Enchanted Sunrise Farms]

i hope i'm not taking over this thread from flockof5, but staying on this topic - i don't let my goats eat chicken feed, but when they are out, two of them will go over to the coops and try to eat any feed that has scooted outside the pens. With these warnings, i will make sure that never happens again.

helmstead, can you get back on that soapbox for a minute?

i do have Purina Goat Chow, not sure if it is medicated. i've received warnings from others to only feed grain as a treat. We've been feeding the three-way hay (i think it's oat, wheat, and rye?) twice a day, plus alfalfa pellets and the Goat Chow, maybe half a cup each, every couple of days. We have two year-old adults (a doe and a wether) and then Tink who is about three months. Sounds like i need to be feeding her more grain, and putting out alfalfa 24/7?

Thanks for any input, and sorry to take over the thread. i should probably find a good goat forum.

 

[helmstead]

If your adult goats are in good condition, you can go with what you've been doing unless they're breeding, in which case you must offer goat feed (3.5 lbs per 100 min.) for proper fetal development and also to keep a breeding buck in good condition.

What you can do for the youngster is build a creep feeder out of cattle panels or similar - something she can get into that the others cannot - leave alfalfa pellets free choice and give her the extra feed in there.

The label on your feed will say "medicated" if it is in fact. Otherwise, ask your dealer if they offer or can order the medicated version. This is SO important to young goats to keep cocci numbers level.

 

[cassie]

Quote:
When you find the goat in the grain, keeping the animal from water for a few hours and filling it up on hay may save its life. By doing so you PREVENT the onset of acidosis. Once acidosis occurs, then it is a whole different ball game, and the animal needs water and lots of it. If the animal gets water right after the grain, acidosis will probably occur and there is no point in restricting water then. The damage is already done. Prompt administration of an antiacid like rumalax will help. And if you don't find the goat until it is sick, obviously it will need water. Maybe IV fluids, rumalax, charcoal, and other things too. Even with all that, the mortality rate for grain overload is high. As for why GasX? It works. And fast. If you don't have it on hand you can get it at the drug store or grocery store. Oil may work for frothy bloat, but if you get any in the lungs the goat will in all probability die in a few days because of mechanical pneumonia. GasX works better anyway. And it is much safer. BTW, I did not just fall off the turnip truck. I bred and showed purebred dairy goats for over 40 years, and for many of those years I had a commercial dairy. The protocol I used was given to me by my vet and I can vouch from personal experience that it works. The penicillin is not for the grain overload, it is for the enterotoxemia (caused by clostridium perfingens) that the overload often precipitates. Entero kills very quickly.

 

[helmstead]

A quote from Sue Reith
(full text located http://www.goatworld.com/articles/enterotoxemia/enterotoxemia3.shtml)

"Penicillin does its part to help kill off the toxins, but is not strong enough to do that without the help of the antitoxin"

I read this to say pen is NOT a treatment for entero...

And I stand by my belief that withholding water is a poor idea. Regardless of how long ago you fell off the turnip truck, I feel some of your advice is perhaps outdated. I acknowledge that you will get 10 different opinions on many things around goats - but some opinions have been proven myth recently as pet goat ownership increases leading to better research funding.

Aspiration is a risk with ANY drench...therefore many of the medications we give orally come with a risk of pneumonia. On that note, not all of us live within a quick drive to a 24 hr pharmacy to go grab some GasX, but I feel pretty confident saying the majority of us have veg oil in our pantries...

Oy this is why I should keep my opinionated self off this board...sorry OP.

 

[username taken]

This thread is going slightly off topic but I think there's some valuable information.

cassie, I respect what you are saying and your number of years in the industry. But I also - respectfully - suggest that I have access to the most recent veterinary and small ruminant research. And some of the commonly held old timer remedies have been proven to be ineffective or even harmful.

For example - lancing abcesses - 9 times out of 10 does nothing to speed the healing process - yet old timers swear by it

Puncturing the rumen in cases of bloat - almost every time will result in the death of the animal because of peritonitis - the toxins from the rumen infect the space between the hide and the GIT.

As far as penn for entero - kate has already addressed that - but I will say, I have NEVER seen an animal that has gorged on grain suddenly, die of entero. And I have treated probably close to 200 cases of acidosis or similar over the years. It puzzles me as to why people believe entero is such a high likelyhood of death after accidental grain overload. On the other hand, the cases I have seen of sudden entero (probably around 50 or so) the animal was on a very stable diet, and had been vaccinated, just all of a sudden dead, or brought on by the stress of kidding.

Kate beat me again with the aspiration pneumonia as well as vege oil. Oil and bicarb soda, along with cold tea are things that everyone has in their house.

ENCHANTED SUNRISE FARMS:

to answer your question about feeding.

Your three way grain is PERFECT and I would continue to put it out 2 x per day, as much as they want to eat.

Tink at 3 months really needs a grain that is at least 16% protein, preferably 18 - 20% protein - check the label on the bag. I would increase her feed slowly until she is getting 1.5 cups of alfalfa pellets and 1.5 cups high protein grain, twice a day, every day. But remember to build her up to this slowly. I would do this until she is about 10 mths old.

For the adult doe and the wether, I would give 1/2 cup alfalfa pellets and 1/2 cup grain (this is for each goat), twice a day. This is assuming you have standard sized goats. The doe will need a bit more if she is in the last trimester of pregnancy, or lactating.

Also, a good goat forum - thegoatspot dot net