My great pyr pups killed a chicken, training tips please?

[thndrdancr]

So positive reinforcement down at the coop wouldnt help? I DO want them to know I value the birds, etc. Gosh this gets confusing....

 

[Brindlebtch]

You need to get shock collars. There are remotes that will work 2 collars. Get the shock collars and solve your problem quickly or have problems until you decide to get rid of your dogs. The right and humane thing to do, if you want to keep your dogs, is use an electric collar on them NOW before the behavior becomes a habit.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote:
It can't correct a behavior they don't DO when you're there..
If you have them on a leash, and are right there with them, odds are they won't attempt to chase the chickens.

At best, you'd be teaching them not to chase birds WHEN ON A LEASH

They need to be on their own, and watched from a distance so they don't associate the correction with YOU at all.
You want them to think you have ELECTRIC chickens that shock the dogs if touched

I know many don't like the idea of a "shock" collar, but if adjusted PROPERLY, it's not painful at all.
If it hurts them, you don't have it set correctly.

 

[thndrdancr]

I am not averse to a shock collar at all, does anyone have any recommendations on brands, etc?

And I need to do it when they first start chasing right?

 

[cmjust0]

I agree with Bear Foot here... If these two are worth their weight as LGDs, they won't really care if you value your animals or not.. It's not in their DNA to try and make you happy. They're just not that kind of dog. Exactly as BF said, they've been bred selectively (read that, culled hard) over the course of thousands of years to think and act appropriately and independently of the herdsman.. Reason being, if the herdsman were always around to see predators and direct the dog...he wouldn't need a dog...because he'd just kill the predators himself.

As such, LGDs don't require "training," nor do they typically take to training very well. They're smart, to be sure...but they're extremely independent thinkers, as well they should be.. So, put out of your head any ideas of "training" your LGD as to what it's supposed to be guarding.

What LGDs require is correction, and there's a huge difference between training and correction.. With training, you're teaching them to do something you want them to do; with correction, you're teaching them NOT to do things you DON'T want them to do. Polar opposites, when you think about it. And believe me...it's nearly impossible to correct this type of dog in a positive way -- especially when they're as stubborn and independent as LGDs tend to be..

That doesn't mean you beat the daylights out of you dog, either.. Indeed, that's the VERY LAST THING you'd want to do to a LGD -- and it's by no means required anyway.

When you catch them in the act, correct them with the least negativity it takes to get your point across. Most LGDs, if they respect you as a superior, are EXTREMELY sensitive to your mood. With ours, if they're doing something I don't want them to do, all I usually have to do is say "HEY" or clap my hands or something to get their attention...and then just look at them like I'm about to run straight through them, usually accompanied by pointing my finger at them and saying "You'd better WATCH IT."

In the vast majority of instances when something like that happens, they lower their head and go the other way immediately, and that's the end of that. If they continue to exhibit the bad behavior and you continue to let them know that it's unacceptable, they'll eventually give it up.


But keep in mind, just like BF said...your dogs will be puppies for the next 20 months or so, and they're going to make mistakes along the way. That's life with an LGD.. I know there are plenty of people out there who will tell you that all you need to do is buy the pup, throw it in the field, and the rest is magic........that's just not the case in the vast majority of cases, and it's super bad advice that only heightens expectations and leads to a lot of abandoned LGD pups..

If you keep working with them until they mature, I promise you...you won't be able to imagine life with an LGD.

 

[Brindlebtch]

Tritronics is a really good brand. Make sure you get the long electrodes that will make it through all the hair.

Innotek is not too bad and less expensive.

 

[thebritt]

Quote:
This is exactly what I did - caught my 4 month old pyr in the act. He had a young hen between his front paws and was licking her feathers off, but she was still alive. I screamed, "NO! NO! NO!" and sprinted over to him and tackled him, rolled him over, and held him down by his neck, while yelling, "ROWRRR" in his face. He got the message, but he was not left unattended for quite awhile with the birds. I also stepped up our "Leave it" practice - first on leash, then off. Whenever he looked at a bird, he got the "leave it" command, and when he looked away he got a treat and a "Good boy". Eventually no treat was needed, just praise. He's now 6 yrs old and lays down with the chickens all around him. He chases away the hawks and ravens and has lived up to the Pyr's reputation as a LGD. Hang in there!

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

I am not averse to a shock collar at all, does anyone have any recommendations on brands, etc?

And I need to do it when they first start chasing right?

This is the collar I use.
I like to wait until they touch the chicken. If you shock them as soon as they touch it, they SOON learn it's not worth the effort to chase them at all

http://www.discount-pet-superstore.com/dogtrainingcollars/sportdog_field_trainer.htm

It only took TWO shocks to go from a hard core chicken chaser to this:

 

[cmjust0]

For all you folks out there using the so-called 'alpha roll' to dominate your LGD pups...what are you gonna do when you catch your LGD doing something bad or deciding to test your authority once it gets to, say, 150lbs and has a mouthful of big shiny white teeth? Alpha roll it?

Good luck with that..

Anyone with a new LGD pup would do well to understand that you want the dog to respect you because you're human -- not despite the fact -- and that getting down on the dog's level and engaging in dog antics to correct it really only undermines your position of innate superiority by making the dog think of you more as a peer than the superior being you are...

So...why would you willingly give up your biggest advantage???

Make the dog understand your superiority by correcting it on two feet, with as little effort or emotion as possible. If a misbehaving dog suddenly finds itself being corrected swiftly by a human with little or no warning...nor a huge effort on the human's part...well, suffice it to say that it inspires respect in the dog -- a lot more so than watching you wallow around in the mud on all fours like any other common dog would do.

 

[chicknerd]

I have an 18 month old Pyr, Inka who I do not leave with the chicks. She is absolutely infatuated with them but she is 110 lbs and they are less than a lb each. So she gets time with the chicks only when I supervise. She has to sit first and then I open the brooder. I let her smell them and she is with me when I hold them. She can be in the room when I clean the brooder but she must sit or lay (she does not always obey- sometimes she just gets so excited and stands up and has to put her muzzle in the brooder, but she is getting better). I do not leave her alone for a minute. I have to close the room door when I leave.

When the chicks are in their enclosed pen outside (its about 3'x8' and covered) she loves to sit near it doing her 'Pyr thing.' It is obvious she is guarding them. But every once in a while I will turn around and she is instigating them by jumping around near the pen. I let her know the behavior is not approved and (keeping my fingers crossed) I have not seen this behavior for the past 4 days. We are now working on me not being around for a few minutes and I will see how she is.

When she comes in the house she has to go to the brooder and check on them. I also have to let her visit them before she goes to bed or she will not settle down. So she has the idea, but she is still young and needs constant attention with them.

She has been to obedience training and we used the shock collar when she was young. She has a collar now for the property perimeter fence and she respects that because we started her young. If you wait too long the Pyrs will ignore the shock (This was the case with our previous Pyr).

These dogs are great guard dogs but they are independent and strong willed. I might suggest you work with each pup independently for a while. I am not an expert but I have two dogs now and I work with each one independently with the chicks.

Good luck!

deb