My inlaws puppy killed a chick today, I need to vent!

[HiddenChicken]

It is true obedience training can suffer extinction. Only, however, if you were to take yourself out of the picture permanently also. Positive reinforcement as little as every few weeks can help to reinforce the training. Do no harm.

Having dogs & working at a dog training facility has shown me more times than I can count that dogs learn obedience only through consistent training. If it is not consistent, a dog will learn only that he can get away with the bad behavior *sometimes*. If the reward for the bad behavior is "worth it" to the dog, he will continue to attempt the behavior for the few times he does get away with it.

For the chickens, that's bad news & a life of stress from a predator. For the dog, it's confusing & he gets yelled at & punished a lot. Trust me on this. Consistency is the key. Once the behavior is truly learned, intermittent reinforcement is enough. An electrified fence is a consistent behavior modification tool, not a way to do harm.

Also, anyone who suggests to shoot someone's dog before getting a fence is, IMHO, wrong. Sorry...just my opinion. The dog should not be executed for it owner's shortcomings. There are other effective ways to keep the peace & do no harm.

 

[juststruttin]

Maybe you should put a shock collar on your in-laws and every time their dog comes over - shock them.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Okay, DH wants to be near aging father, thats fair enough. But, do you all really need to be right next door? How did this arrangement come about? If some space is an option, it would probably be best both for your family and for an aging and not fully able bodied person trying to hold onto what independence he can.

Other than that, if you don't want to continue to have the feelings and rights of you and your family trampled on, it will most likely mean treating the neighbors as neighbors instead of as family. Dog in the yard? Time to drive him to a shelter. Horse loose? Animal control can be called. It is fairly clear from what you've written that your in-laws have some issues with boundaries, and in my experience, you will not be viewed favorably or fairly if choosing that path. Conflict will likely escalate. For a more reasonable option, your family will likely need to put up a solid fence to keep the peace. Also, has DH spoken with parents about these issues?

I feel terribly for your kids and for the frustration of dealing with people who are not acting in a respectful manner. Hope things get better!

 

[3riverschick]

Hum,
We bred working rough and smooth collies for years. This dogs genetics aren't that bad. Livestock guardian & estate protector. If they handle him right he could be a valuable working dog. Could also, maybe, be a flock protector. Hum. These folk need to get ahold of both Mastiff and Pyr breeders and discuss what traits are common to both breeds plus what traits might conflict with each other when the two breeds are bred together. Then they need to get this puppy into a puppy obedience class.
All this negativity isn't helping the puppy. It's just training it to be suspicious and untrusting when humans command him.
Once the owners talk to the breeders of both breeds, they can out together a training plan which will bring out the best in this pup who is a cross-bred Both breeds are independently-minded and slow-maturing when it comes to obedience training. But they can take baby steps with the puppy first.
For right now, fence your chickens in. This dog isn' going to mature any faster than nature intended. Probably 15 months to 2 yrs. of age. You can make nice fence panels from 2x4's that are 6 ft. long and welded wire fencing .Fence staple the wire to the 6ft. x 6ft. x6ft. panels. Use 4x4's at the corners and bolt everything together with carriage bolts. Set up the panels so the stapled side is on the outside of the chicken yard. . Make a gate and fit it in the panels somewhere. I use this set up for my collies and my runs are now 16 years old and still functioning just fine.That should keep him out.
Best,
Karen

 

[snot]

About the only choice you have here is to train the dog yourself and use it to your advantage. You can't change family without causing ww3. I'd never allow a dog that will have that size and power to be around my children without it being trained.and if your don't trust inlaws to train him up rite then you better get on it yourself. If you don't who pays the dog? your chickens? or your kids? That's a crap shoot I wouldn't be willing to accept any of the outcomes of. Your right your inlaws SUCK for not handling it themselves its their dog. But if you work him you have a huge accent in chicken child and home protection that you don't have to pay to feed.

 

[centrarchid]

Since dog lives close by and owners are kin, make so dog is benefit. Take it in and confine it close to where birds are confined. Work on getting dog under control so when you indicate stop doing something, it does so immediately. Keep the dog near birds. Take dog out to walk about both properties at least twice daily to allow development interests not centered on chickens. Once a measure of control realized, then let birds free-range but under supervision. Part of problem here to be overcome is the chicken owners. You will have to practice a little patience and take care so your activities do not aggrivate situation when dog screws up. Several methods can be employed to succesfully stop dog from being a problem but owing to dogs developmental stage (~5 months) and how it was reared, you will be challenged but success can be realized.

 

[Joe Jordan]

Having dogs & working at a dog training facility has shown me more times than I can count that dogs learn obedience only through consistent training. If it is not consistent, a dog will learn only that he can get away with the bad behavior *sometimes*. If the reward for the bad behavior is "worth it" to the dog, he will continue to attempt the behavior for the few times he does get away with it.
For the chickens, that's bad news & a life of stress from a predator. For the dog, it's confusing & he gets yelled at & punished a lot. Trust me on this. Consistency is the key. Once the behavior is truly learned, intermittent reinforcement is enough. An electrified fence is a consistent behavior modification tool, not a way to do harm.
Also, anyone who suggests to shoot someone's dog before getting a fence is, IMHO, wrong. Sorry...just my opinion. The dog should not be executed for it owner's shortcomings. There are other effective ways to keep the peace & do no harm.

You're right that training has to be often and consistent. Maintenance of the training also has to be consistent but not as often as training. There are many psychological studies that support this reasoning. I believe we are talking about the same thing and are even on the same page, but where you are insisting the training be often and consistent, I have already stipulated to that and have gone on to offer suggestion on the maintenance of training. This is much like maintaining the desired behaviors of a hunting dog. You don't take it hunting three times a day once it has learned to retrieve, merely occasional scheduled maintenance or as needed. Same idea. No?

I applaud you for your suggestion that all other alternatives be considered/exhausted before killing the dog. It's not the dog's fault its owners are idiots.

 

[HiddenChicken]

You're right that training has to be often and consistent. Maintenance of the training also has to be consistent but not as often as training. There are many psychological studies that support this reasoning. I believe we are talking about the same thing and are even on the same page, but where you are insisting the training be often and consistent, I have already stipulated to that and have gone on to offer suggestion on the maintenance of training. This is much like maintaining the desired behaviors of a hunting dog. You don't take it hunting three times a day once it has learned to retrieve, merely occasional scheduled maintenance or as needed. Same idea. No?

I applaud you for your suggestion that all other alternatives be considered/exhausted before killing the dog. It's not the dog's fault its owners are idiots.

No, I never said training has to be often... it just has to be consistent, but it can only be as often as the situation presents itself...ya know? (I'm only talking behavior modification...not skills like flushing or retrieving.) As the bad behavior occurs, one's response to it must be absolutely consistent every single time the bad behavior occurs. Also, consistent praise and rewards for good behavior. Then, after the good behavior is learned, one only has to reinforce the behavior with praise/scratch on the ears/treats/whatever on an intermittent basis.

I think we're basically on the same page here...

...

Thanks re: the don't shoot the dog comment. I understand a lot of people would just shoot "the predator," and that's their right to do it, but I just wouldn't. I would go out and hit it with a stick and chase it off, but shooting it seems extreme. There are many reasons a dog may be out unsupervised & in your yard, and dogs are pretty much programmed to chase a bird/squirrel/rabbit, but it certainly doesn't mean it's a dog worthy of destruction. Again, IMHO. But, warning the owner you *might* kill it can be pretty darned effective, yeah?

 

[centrarchid]

Joe Jordan and HiddenChicken,

The desired end game here is a dog that is trustworthy around poultry without supervission. Traning regimen needs to be one where rewards are not centered on behavior around poultry which is very much the opposite of what is realized when dog desired in capacity as hunting aid / partner. My use of dogs is generally dual purpose where while around household / barnyard dogs are expected to function as livestock guardians and operate free-range while doing it, and to be hunting dogs at night off-property for racoons or by day for rabbits. Training regimens as you depict much more consistent with hunting end and not best for poultry side. This based on a good amount of expereince.

 

[duncan5]

I was so sad to read your post about your inlaws puppy that killed your chicken. I only have a few polish chickens but I am very attached to them. It sounds like this isn't the only disagreement you have had with your neighbors. I think my inlaws are great... we live 1,500 miles away from them. Again, I am sorry for you loss.