Need advice on dogs...

[Spongegirl]

I live on 2.5 acres surrounded by farmed fields and woods. Lots of wild things...coyotes, snakes, owls, hawks, coons, opossums, mice, rabbits, deer, turkeys. I have to have a dog or the yuckies are up on my porch. I also want to breed chickens full time and need the help of a dog. The maremma i have is a failure beyond compare and he must go. What do i get now? Ive always had german shepherds. It took me 3 years of training of my last one before she finally left the chickens alone. Starting over with a puppy, omg! the task!...but a necessary one. I NEED something that will leave my chickens alone and keep everything else away.

 

[centrarchid]

II do a lot of hen hatching and rearing in yard as well as a field and must have dogs to do it consistently.


First what is the Maremma's shortfall. That you maybe able to correct or at least prepare you for preventing same problem with next dog.

 

[4 the Birds]

I live on 2.5 acres surrounded by farmed fields and woods. Lots of wild things...coyotes, snakes, owls, hawks, coons, opossums, mice, rabbits, deer, turkeys. I have to have a dog or the yuckies are up on my porch. I also want to breed chickens full time and need the help of a dog. The maremma i have is a failure beyond compare and he must go. What do i get now? Ive always had german shepherds. It took me 3 years of training of my last one before she finally left the chickens alone. Starting over with a puppy, omg! the task!...but a necessary one. I NEED something that will leave my chickens alone and keep everything else away.

A good perimeter fence would be my advice followed by a good watch dog or pair of dogs to keep critters at bay. Some dogs can be trained to leave chickens alone especially when raised from a pup but my choice would be to have the chickens in a dedicated fenced free range area away from the dog or dogs. This isolates chicken poo away from the dogs and keeps the vegetation destruction to a confined area.

 

[centrarchid]

Additionally, I come from very near you in southern Indiana and will be visiting family soon.

 

[Spongegirl]

thanks all...welI know the dog is the way to go, just don't know what breed. A fence is out of the question for now. Nature is my fence.

as far as the maremma goes...i screwed up from day one and accepted a pup that was too young at 8 weeks. while this is fine for other breeds, its not ok for this dog...too young! Being so little, i felt bad for him in the cold on his first night away from litter mates and let him come in the house. We let him bond to us instead of the horses and chickens. He is a total mess now. I cant even have my 4 year outside because he would knock her down and tramp her thinking she is a puppy. He wont listen, he wont learn. Ive had german shepherds so its not like im new to dogs. I am used to smart dogs that will understand decipline. He will not. I was warned of the fact the maremma does what it wants and doesn't respond well to commands. I read that they have their job, they know their job, and that's what they do. So I suppose I didn't introduce him to the chicken the correct way, i expected that he would bond with them and not kill them like everyone raves about. He is so hyper and wants to play and tag and run circles around me continually. He chased the neighbors dogs away once. He let a opossum eat chickens one night. He has killed 7 of my chickens/chicks.

 

[centrarchid]

thanks all...welI know the dog is the way to go, just don't know what breed.  A fence is out of the question for now.  Nature is my fence. 

as far as the maremma goes...i screwed up from day one and accepted a pup that was too young at 8 weeks.  while this is fine for other breeds, its not ok for this dog...too young!  Being so little, i felt bad for him in the cold on his first night away from litter mates and let him come in the house.  We let him bond to us instead of the horses and chickens.  He is a total mess now.  I cant even have my 4 year outside because he would knock her down and tramp her thinking she is a puppy.  He wont listen, he wont learn.  Ive had german shepherds so its not like im new to dogs.  I am used to smart dogs that will understand decipline.  He will not.  I was warned of the fact the maremma does what it wants and doesn't respond well to commands.  I read that they have their job, they know their job, and that's what they do.  So I suppose I didn't introduce him to the chicken the correct way, i expected that he would bond with them and not kill them like everyone raves about.  He is so hyper and wants to play and tag and run circles around me continually.  He chased the neighbors dogs away once.  He let a opossum eat chickens one night.  He has killed 7 of my chickens/chicks.

For use with chickens you did most everything fine, pup age was not a problem. Biggest concern beyond lack of confinement is dog is still a pup and will not settle down for another 6 months or so.

You could start same dog from scratch on chicken side, even if it has killed a few you can break its bad habit there. A lot of that will self correct with the dogs maturation. My current female guardian did not stop mistreating birds (juveniles) until she was a solid two years old. She represents a breed the LGD purists will tell you matures much faster than LGD's.

There is a lot of bunk out there concerning LGD's and chickens. The dogs were not bred for that purpose and the conditions the dog need to be maintained under to do such a job may not agree with proper husbandry for that breed. They can still do it with training and additional confinement concerns although you have ruled out confinement. I also confine dogs with charges not separately, otherwise you are apt to be humiliated by opossums getting birds at night.


Your dog needs some proper exposure to the next opossum and be encouraged to kill it which requires minimal effort. Once dog gets Idea then it will be eager to engage next opossum.

Consider the English Shepherd. Historically they were one of the breeds commonly encountered around barnyards and front porches in the rural US. They are small in the size range of my dogs but as a pair can handle anything you have in your area save for multiple large dogs that even you single Maremma would have difficulty with. Put priority in getting some out of large parents. They will still present you with maturation issues but are more trainable yet still willing to persecute predators that get into yard. They are well adapted to climate you have and having the sleep under a porch is not a bad thing. Just make so you protection does not start and end with dogs.

Like you I do not have a proper perimeter fence. The dogs make it work but I spend considerable effort keeping birds in areas that are easy to survey and patroll by dogs. I also employ fences that are solely to keep other peoples dogs away from core areas. I live in an area where occasionally a pack of Maremmas would be overwhelmed by feral dogs so fences provide refuges that stop those dogs long enough either for my dogs to push strangers out or for me to get in a cut losses.

Sorry for disjunct train of thought, busy day here catching bugs.

 

[FishaRneKed]

Check out mine on post number 9 here. then post 15 a few weeks later.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/885151/fisharnekeds-bycs-new-orleans-algiers-la


He was a reposession as a pup from the trunk of a cadilack. had him genetic tested, turns out to be American Staffordshire Terrier. He just pulled a 3ft snake off of his hens a few days ago. He is great with little kids (under supervision as he will knock them over).

In the last month, he has completely taken the flock as his own and does not look at them as prey. (this took a bit of work.

 

[nzpouter]

Fence.... or else your dogs will be somebody else's problem.

 

[Melabella]

http://www.englishshepherd.org/




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My English Shepherd is everything you described. He watches over my small flock and puts them up in their run if asked. He has an incredible sense of what is balanced behavior and what is not. He watches my every move, but retreats and lays down when I don't need him to be in my space. He is guardian of our small acerage, very territorial about things or animals that shouldn't be here. The breed has an incredible urge to please his master, and guard what is his masters property, animal or family. He is never hyper, but has stamina for anything asked of him. He rides out with me on horseback, or when i go for a walk or hike in the woods. He never takes off, despite the fact he is still intact.






I can't say enough about this breed, especially if you have acreage and animals to look after, and a family to need watching over.

Good Luck!
MB

 

[Spongegirl]

Thanks! I am familiar with that breed. I used to work in a horse stable and they had those there. Thank you very much for that.