Need advice on how to stop leash pulling

[The Tinman]

When she pulls foward you and her are in a tug of war. What you need to do is pull her sideways. Hopefuly this will get her out of pull mode for the time being.

 

[welsummerchicks]

I think because of their build, bulldogs do tend to pull on the leash. I've had huskies, and they tend to pull a lot too, but a bulldog is just built low to the ground and it tends to have a strong neck and chest.

I do think stopping and sitting here and there does help, as does changing direction...to a point, which I'll explain later.

I don't agree that pulling around other smaller animals means a 'strong prey drive', I just feel it means you have an untrained puppy. It's natural for any untrained pup to pull and to gravitate toward smaller animals. It just needs to be trained.

However, I will disagree with using a harness. Harnesses are for pulling against, and the low slung center of gravity of a bulldog is made for pulling. I don't care for any of the 'halti' type collars except after attempts with something simpler have failed. The 'halti' type very easily can get caught on things, so must be removed in more situations than the chain collar.

And I will disagree with the statements about not using a training(chain) collar. Plus I don't think you can use a pinch collar on a bullie because they have so much loose and folded skin around their neck.

I don't think that 'if you don't know how to use a training collar, don't use it', is advice I'd give. Instead, I'd advise to learn how to use it, and I think with a bulldog you will need it.

I agree with the advice that 'it's very hard concept', but that the person can't pull if he doesn't want the dog to pull....to a point. There is a point beyond which the dog trainer DOES have to pull on that danged leash, but with a caveat. 'PULL' means a steady, unrelenting backward pull, a YANK or a SNAP is a very, very different thing, and that is how you use the lead and training collar to get a dog to heel without HIM pulling on YOU. The bottom line is that you don't use a steady TRACTION, you use yanks, snaps and jerks of the collar. Oh and I know...how many people feel that's 'mean' and 'cruel'.

But the fact is, you pull steady on that leash, you have a DOG that pulls steadily on that lead. You get what you make. The TIGHTER That leash constantly is - the more the dog wants to fight other dogs, lunge at little animals, and the MORE of a pain in the keister he is to walk on a leash!

The same advice is often given with horses, 'it takes two to pull', and many people take that to mean they should NEVER do anything at all with their hands and the reins should always hang down, but the trick is that you still need to use the reins in training, it's just HOW you use them. With a steady unrelenting pressure to keep the horse's head and neck in position, the horse isn't balanced and it will eventually lay heavier and heavier on the hand...constantly. In other words, you get what you make.

Same with the dog. Don't use a steady, consistent pressure. DON't have that leash be the thing that's holding the dog in position, so that if someone cut the leash, you'd fall down and the dog would shoot forward like a runaway train.

Leash training a strong dog - any training of a dog - is not always a delicate and refined matter of holding a treat where you want to him to go. But it is going to be with quick SNAPS of the leash, NOT a steady pressure. Never thing of HOLDING the dog in position on the lead with a steady, consistent pressure.

The chain collar needs to be fitted so that it is snug, without a long section of chain hanging down. It needs to be put on 'the right way' so that it releases easily(see diagrams of how to put on chain, when it is on right the loose end of the chain does not get hung up, and releases very easily.

The trick is in how the chain collar is used, which takes an awful lot of attention on the trainer's part. He has to be focused constantly on the dog and his own position and what he's doing. Most people CANNOT carry on a conversation while doing this, at least not at first.

It is as if you always want the clip of the leash to HANG DOWN. Not because the dog is allowed to wander anywhere, or even within an 'allowed' area ('directed heeling'), but because the dog is guided into position, NEVER by a steady pressure, but by quick snaps of the lead. The collar should tighten quickly and release just as quickly.

Instead of HOLDING the dog in position by your leg with a constant pressure on the collar, you actually use your chain collar with a quick obvious snap - tight and immediately loose - when the dog is out of position.

Treats MAY help, but only when the dog is not distracted. And some dogs refuse treats during leash training. That MAY be due to stress, or it MAY be because that is just how that dog things - look at the whole dog - tail, ears, head carriage, to determine if it is really stressed.

Train the dog at first in a small, distraction free area, and don't 'graduate' him to walking on the sidewalk or street or field until this training in this less difficult area has gotten solidified. Get your treats and put them in your left hand, the dog is heeling on your left side(treats are a bit awkard to give with a shorter dog, but do your best). Don't ever walk the dog in any other position, but in heel position. Don't say 'oh, we're not training right now' and let him wander or let him walk on the right or in front of you. Ever.

I've never found 'directed heeling' (giving the dog a 'zone' he can be in during early training, because we don't want to 'ask to much at first' or want to teach heel 'gradually' because it's 'nicer', that just isn't how a dog's brain works). to work with stronger dogs that want to forge ahead or pull from the start. Have one position, one consistent position where the dog walks at your side, from the time he's a pup. If you're tired or not up to training, don't put him on the leash and have him wandering around. Be 100% consistent.

How well the dog heels does not depend on his breed, or his age. It depends SOLELY on how the trainer trains the dog. If the trainer reacts quickly and well, the dog will heel well.

When a dog leaps ahead and starts to pull, give him a leash correction. You CAN change direction...but...What you can do by changing direction has its limits - it can't be to the point of 'tricky' or 'unfair'. There has to be a consistency to everything you do. Suddenly dashing off to one side - it's a little 'unfair'. We don't want a dog to be nervously wondering what unexpected thing the trainer is going to do next. I honestly used to do this, and I did not feel the longer term results were what I wanted. I wanted the dog very loose and relaxed, and really enjoying his work - that comes from consistency.

There ARE times when a full 180 is fully justified. When a dog is completely out of control, he is indeed in need of what an old trainer of mine called a 'CTJ Moment'. I just would not over-use it. Keep it in your back pocket for the worst moments only.

Example, I trained a female bloodhound that was about 4 and 'could not be walked on a leash', she spent her entire day in the garage baying in the dark because the owner could not handle her, and the owner had decided to put her down. Even in a maxi pinch collar, she would come out the front door of the house in a full run baying her head off. I let her hit the end of the leash so hard her body flipped over 180 degrees in the air. So, she took off in the other direction, baying and just as fast. I braced and let her hit the end of the lead in THAT direction. She flipped over just as hard, 100% airborne. Then she walked over to me, wagged her tail, and stood there waiting for me to go off in my chosen direction.

That was it. Done. After 4 years of habits had been established. She was a very smart dog and she learned, but dogs in general have very 'elastic behavior'. We get what we create. The trouble was everyone was so busy being 'nice' to her they failed to get an important point across to her - that she needed to pay attention to what the PERSON was doing.

Whenever you change direction plan a gradual change at first, a wide circle or gradual turn, and call out 'HEEL!' before changing direction, and use that command only ONCE before giving a leash correction (snap of lead). Make the snaps very, very quick and obvious. ONLY make them when the dog is out of position. You have to INSTANTLY stop the split second he is in position.

It indeed takes some coordination to snap the lead and offer treats. With a thick necked, short necked dog like a bulldog, it's important to get him glancing up at you a lot. Instead of looking ahead, focusing on things to play with or chase, he is looking up.

About treats. For years and years, most people trained their obedience dogs to heel - whether Khoeler intended it or not, very, very firmly, with lots of very, very harsh leash corrections, abrupt changes of direction, the so called 'Khoeler method'. Over the last few years, people have started to use more and more treats to teach heel, and the results have been a very different look at the obedience trials. The dogs look very cheerful and happy.

But at the same time, it seems quite a few have gone totally to the opposite extreme - OVER emphasizing treats, and never making any corrections('corrections are so mean!'), so they have a very good heeling dog when they have a treat in their hand and are in a training situation, but the dogs aren't TRAINED FOR DAILY LIFE - for example, I saw a dog fly out of a car door like a freight train, pull like a train all the way to the training area, then hop along joyfully at heel in the TRAINING AREA....and then lunge his way back to the car!

DON'T OVER-EMPHASIZE TREATS. DON'T ever believe that when that cat or bunny jumps up in your dog's face, that dangling a treat in front of him as he accelerates to 45 mph is going to 'redirect' him. Think about TRAINING your dog so he is going to be reliable and consistent in and out of the training session...that means there are times when you are going to correct, even PUNISH him. HE NEEDS TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE THE LEADER AND YOU MUST BE OBEYED. Have a 'ladder' in your mind so that you are always on the first step of the ladder, and you never go up the ladder unless you are very sure you have to. If your dog bites or growls, you get a free pass to go right to the top step on the ladder without any other steps!

Remember, your dog HAS to obey you, ,EVERY time you give a command. So don't give a command unless you are in a mood to back it up!

You can start with holding a treat up and giving it to him while he's seated at your side to start getting him focused on you and on heeling. A lot of trainers use especially tasty treats with pups so that they are very eager to get it and very eager to work for it. A bit of liver especially can be tasty - I used to get freeze dried liver bits - nutritious too, but give only small pieces during heeling work.

A person who competes with his dog in obedience, wants a very, very 'cheerful, happy' looking dog that is GLUED to his leg, looking up every moment, hopping up in front almost constantly, and he is going to emphasize that over everything else, right from the start, to keep that 'happy happy' look, much more than the owner who just wants a safe, obedient pet during walks.

The competitive trainer is quite often going to use a TON of treats, almost constantly, in heeling. That isn't always right for everyone, and it is not necessary, as long as one uses the training collar accurately. Especially an elderly or handicapped person, it is hard enough to use the training collar, let alone give treats constantly at the same time. Besides he may much rather have a dog be very, very quiet and steady at heel, right from the start, and not as tight on his leg.


A person who just wants a dog that's fun to walk at home, may not need to have his dog quite as 'treat happy', constantly leaping up, looking up and tight against his leg. He MIGHT want to train his dog that way just because it's fun to have a dog be like that. OR....He may even want to train his dog to be not so tight to his leg, so if he is carrying something he isn't likely to trip on the dog. All it takes is consistency. You get just what you make.

 

[Hillsvale]

first off beautiful dog... and I didn't read any other posts but with our dogs we used a normal collar and a really long leash which we actually wrapped around our waist and basically leashed us to the dog.. keeps the dog really close to you and when they try and pull ahead the leash is too short, they need correction as well with a flick of the top or side of your foot to their thigh corrects them.

We also used this method in the house while doing normal household chores and made lots of turns etc. the dog quickly learns to pay attention to what you are doing rather than you needing to pay attention to what he is doing!

One other thing to remember is that you should never go around a dog, they should be made to move out of your way. If you don't do this it shows weakness to the dog... ie: your subserviant. We also never feed our dogs before we have eaten for the same reason, even if we don't get dinner until 9pm such as last night.

For the first little bit, especially since he is still a baby make sure you watch that he doesn't get under your feet!

 

[WVchick71]

I use to own Great Danes and this was a problem with My sweet Dante. We would walk and he would pull me. I worked with a trainer/groomer and she suggested I use the prong collar. I thought at first it was terrible. It really looks inhumane at first glance. However, I began using it and if used CORRECTLY....it is the best thing ever. The first time my I put it on Dante..when he would pull ahead he quickly would stop when he felt the prongs. It took literally 2 walks for him to stop pulling completely! It didnt cut his neck or anything like that. It only gives the correction when they pull. I dont like chocker collars but love these prong collars! Good Luck!

 

[whillo]

Maybe I'm old school, but every single dog I've ever owned in my life has started on a choke chain and knew how to heel within a couple of walks. It's a quick jerk, then let go (if it's put on the dog properly). They get the message and life is calm and peaceful.

I took a friend's dogs on a walk the other day and will never do that again. They are lovely dogs. They sit, stay and come. They don't bark uncontrollably, they take treats delicately and you can trust them with your kids. However, since she doesn't believe in choke chain training these dogs got on the end of the leash and proceeded to drag me down the block. It was ridiculous and I thought there was no excuse for that behavior. She won't even take them for walks on a leash. If they can't run in the meadow, she doesn't take them out.

I fail to see how a quick pull and release is worse than a wide collar around the neck that the dog is pulling and pulling on. Seems that would cause choking a lot worse. As a matter of fact, friend's dogs were coughing and gagging as they drug me down the street. (Not very far because I turned them around and put them back in the house after that joke of a walk!)

 

[Hillsvale]

Quote:
Very true!

 

[EweSheep]

Welsummer has very good points in training and that is the method I would use, in quick release, snap or jerk. You HAVE to know what you are doing.

My aunt had a hard time with her golden rev. dog, dragged her all over the place "taking the owner for a walk" type of thing. She went up to my father and handed the leash and told him see if he could make her "heel". He gladly took the leash and gave the dog a walk, turn, "snap" which took the dog by surprise because she was looking at everything and anything around her, not the handler. After a few "snaps", she wisen up and heel so perfectly as you please and even sat for him when they stopped. My aunt was floored how long it took her dog to respond so well and Dad had to teach my aunt a few things and work with her how to use a choker collar correctly and never, ever leave the choker on when you are not training the dog, take it off. Leave his regular non training collar onthe dog so you can tie him or whatever. (They camp alot.)

I cringe everytime alot of bull owners letting their dog "giving the owner a walk". There is no structure, no control and in a split second the dog decided to run, they would get dragged or so sore. Just pitiful sight.

I personally do not like harnesses either, harnesses are for working dogs, to pull a sled or cart or carry a backpack in the woods.

Whats wrong in this country about training dogs is like the unruly kids nowadays....both are heading in the gutter if we don't take care of the "its so cruel" mentality when it really isn't.

I agree with Whillo, not a pretty sight seeing dogs gagging and choking....it can damage their breathing or estophus (sp) tracts. And I am from old school too!

 

[whillo]

I just wanted to say again that choke chains, if not put on and used properly and humanely, can hurt the dog. I took my first pet to puppy training as a teen and learned the proper way to use the chain and every dog I've ever had throughout my life has been a perfect gentleman (or lady!) The opponents to choke chains will say that we jerk and pull the dog violently. That is not the case. A very VERY quick pull and release on the chain is all it takes to get the dog's attention. There may be people that actually yank the dog through the air, but those are also the people that might also kick their dog. I will say that I have never had a dog that didn't have a coat of fur on their body, which protects them immensely from anything around their neck. I doubt I'd ever put a cc on a chihuahua, and I've actually seen those little guys attempting to drag their owners down the street!

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1777&aid=1117

 

[welsummerchicks]

In many circles, chain colllars have gone the way of spankings and other such relics (all of which were 'situation normal' when I was young, LOL). I personally feel a 'halti' is far, far more dangerous than a chain collar. The way it can turn a dog's head so abruptly scares the dickens out of me, I never want to put that kind of pressure on those first two joints of the cervical spine. I feel a chain collar, properly used, is a super, super training collar. I don't believe in discarding a piece of equipment because 'a lot of people use it wrong' - 'a lot of people use it wrong' can be said of any piece of equipment that exists...probably of MOST equipment. I think my husband is out in the yard using my circular saw wrong right as I type. Terrible sounds are coming from the front yard.

Any training session where a dog loses his footing (gets put off balance in any form) is a very, very extreme situation. i would never dream of using an extreme corrections for ordinary training issues - which are usually caused by the handler making a mistake! Dogs are usually very, very 'logical' and think very, very 'concretely', in a very straight forward manner. What they do wrong in most training, they do because of what WE do. Just like a horse, if there is a training problem, it's the old computer saying - PLBKAC - problem lies between keyboard and chair.

If the handler wants to do something extreme, the handler has to balance the risks against the benefits. The dog needs to know he's got a master, but not through brutality, beatings or constant extreme intimidation.

No one ever got a well trained dog by responding in anger (some people can be very cool and calm and beat the snot out of an animal, that doesn't work either, and it's just their type of temper tantrum, it is the same thing, just looks a little different on the surface). No animal ever gets to be reliable from being manhandled. I once knew a dog trainer who said that 'if they only knew how unreliable their dog will wind up, they'd stop pounding on them just out of knowing that, even if they didn't care a **** about the dog's feelings. It just doesn't work'.

When we were at camp a student was doing ground work with her horse. The horse backed up crooked and ran into the side of the arena wall, and the student went ballistic and started hitting the horse and screaming.

The trainer walked over, took the whip out of her hand, and got right up in this girl's face, and said in a very, very soft, calm voice (that was the SCARIEST voice I think I ever heard!!!!), 'your horse backed up crooked because you were holding holding your whip wrong, you <censored censored censored censored>' and promptly kicked her out of the riding section of the camp PERMANENTLY. We get NOWHERE when we get mad at an animal we are training. We stop thinking rationally, and we stop analyzing the situation in a useful or productive way. We start blaming the animal, in other words.

He needs to know he can't bite, growl or simply ignore a command, but the response for biting or growling should NEVER be the same as for ignoring a command. We have to have a very clear hierarchy in our mind.

On the other extreme, it's not possible to train all dogs without some extreme responses sometimes, but again, it's the top of the ladder. The bottom of the ladder is that corrective 'snap' of the collar.

Everyone has to know their dog. There are soft dogs, and there are hard dogs. If you try to train a soft dog as if it is a hard dog, you will not produce good results. But if you try to train a hard dog as if it is a very soft dog, you will fail.

A soft dog needs very light corrections. He can be trained very well with a chain collar, but you would use nowhere near the same sort of correction. A soft dog might be corrected by just hearing the links start to move on the collar. A hard dog might require two sharp, strong snaps of the lead in a row! In between you can tune that chain collar like a musical instrument, to do only what is needed and no more. It's all in how you use it. People used to regularly come to the training class with their dog in a prong collar, and toss that thing out after only a few rounds of the training room in the plain chain collar. All in how it's used.

A harder dog doesn't respond to light corrections. The way the dog is handled always has to be 'tuned' to the type of dog it is.

I would not hesitate to put a chain collar on most of the chihuahas I'VE met, LOL. They are often purchased by owners who spoil them terribly(I guess they are just so cute they appeal to some people that way), and can be very, very tough dogs. They think they are about 36" tall and weigh 120 lbs, and they are often willing to go toe to toe with man or beast, fearless and tough as nails. I LOVE THEM. My friend's Chi trotted into the living room one day carrying a RAT that was bigger than him - THAT HE HAD KILLED ALONE. Quite a few of them are very, very hard dogs.

There are other breeds that tend to be very, very soft, it's very important to know the 'breed temperament' that is expected, but also important to always be ready to adjust to who that dog is that is on the other end of the leash. It's an individual, and they can vary. I've seen goofy, face licking salukis that wagged their tails off when they saw ANYONE, and I've seen bullies that were very, very soft and sweet, and German Shepherds that were the typical sharp, hard, working dog type temperament AND shepherds that were the 'look at me and I pee on the floor thinking you're mad at me' type.

EVERY dog can change. The good trainer reads his dog every single second, and knows what things can make his dog change to a much, much harder dog. Some breeds have been bred very carefully to be 'bidable', that is, they can be called off game that is running hot. But even within the same breed, some are much more 'bidable' than others.

That sweet, soft dog may act very, very different when a bunny jumps up in front of him, or two dogs are fighting and you're between him and those dogs. The old saying is 'one dog is man's best friend, and two dogs are 'who the he** are YOU?''

The esophagus is well protected, and the trachea is made of very, very hard bony plates(ever given someone a tracheotomy...oh my Lord...). The loud sounds from the 'choking' is from the tongue - dogs have survived years of 'gasping heeling'. The thing is that it is just awful looking and sounding, it's bad for the dog's shoulders and legs, and it puts the handler off balance and out of control.

The worst thing about it is that pulling like that, makes the dog excited, tense and aggressive. The more the dog is straining and pulling, the more s/he tends to lunge at every moving thing that goes by. The tighter the leash is, the less the dog is paying attention to his handler, and the more aggressive s/he is going to be.

There's an old saying, 'if you want to see a dog fight, put 'em on leashes'. It's VERY much true if both are pulling. I would never suggest assuming two loose dogs won't fight, but straining at a leash DOES tend to make a dog much more aggressive and tense.

Try it sometime. Get a look at the kind of 'eye' and tail, head position a dog has when he's straining at his leash, vs how he looks when he's going along with the clip hanging right down, looking up at his owner, waiting for that paycheck.

 

[EweSheep]

Well versed, Welsummerchicks and Whillo

!