Need help designing an irregular-shaped covered run

[Ladies of the Forest]

Thank you @DobieLover for your reply! I just read your coop page. Wow, how have I not seen this until now! It's amazing. So detailed and well written, fun to read, and what a professional job you've done. Your setup is beautiful! I really enjoyed reading about Fabio and the babies, too.

I had a feeling I might end up needing to dig holes. I was really hoping to avoid it, but I don't want the structure to collapse... And not just because of the lead, though that's reason #1. Another reason is because our soil is extremely rocky. I dug some holes to plant trees a few years ago (I know, the lead... but I wanted trees damnit, haha), and about half the volume I dug out was rocks. Major pain in the butt and so exhausting! I'm very intrigued by idea of post anchors though. I did not know they existed. If I used this kind:
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instead of digging and pouring concrete, would that be enough? Will the rocky soil be a problem? I can rent a jackhammer so I don't bust myself hammering them in by hand.


No no no, I never intended to build the structure out of the panels alone! There will definitely be a free-standing wooden structure and they'll be attached to it. I was just wondering, since they will offer *some* support (unlike HC), will that give me leeway to maybe space the vertical supports farther, or use 2x4 instead of 4x4, or something like that. Basically, do I earn anything in terms of support because I'm using these panels and not floppy HC...


Ah, now I see what you both meant by the angled wall. Yes, that would make things easier indeed. I was just going for "more is better" and trying to eek out every square foot I could for the chickens But I guess the run will already be big enough, so I'll get rid of the angled section.


I really don't want it to die though It would make a great hiding spot for the chickens, especially on hot days. It's nice and shady under it. And it's probably the only piece of vegetation I have that might survive coexisting with the chickens. I can put down rocks or pavers near the base if they start digging there, or put down HC, to protect its roots. And also, if I get rid of the angled wall, the roof won't extend so far out in front of the bush and it will still get rainwater pretty close by in the front, so hopefully that will help.


Thank you both for your comments! This is really helpful and I'm already reworking the design. I will get rid of the angled wall and cover the whole run permanently (hoping the bush lives). Do let me know what you think about using post anchors instead of concrete footers. And how far apart my vertical supports will need to be.

Hi, I just wanted to comment about putting heavy things, like pavers and rocks around the base of your trees. This isn’t a good idea, if you really want your trees to survive, as it compacts the soil, making it harder for nutrients, water, and air to get to you’re trees’ roots. It’ll take a few years for them to die, but you can’t reverse the damage, once it’s done. Good luck with your project. I have high hopes for you.

 

[DuckyDonna]

Red flag for no footer in freeze/thaw cycle heaving of your timbers.
There is no way that building a structure that large with just fence panels stacked together will support a roof. You will have to build a fully free standing structure and attach the panels to the structure. If you build without footers, expect movement. If you have no choice and are willing to risk it, I would lay down the timbers LEVEL, tie them together with heavy duty strapping and angle braces then screw down post anchors where you put your support posts that will hold up your beams. Yes, this is a lot of lumber and there is going to the associated cost.
You can easily support polycarbonate roof panels with the 4.4/12 pitch roof you are proposing. It will handle the snow load. I had 3' of snow dumped on polycarbonate panels with a lower pitch than what you propose and it held up fine.

I would use 14' 2x6 lumber for rafters and overhang the front and rear edges with the excess. Very much like I built here. Take a look at My Coop link for how this run was constructed.
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You can do 2' on center for the rafters. I would use 1x3 for the purlins and they can be spaced every 2' or whatever the manufacturer of the panels recommends.
You will not want to only install the panels in the winter. Once they're up, they're up. Don't worry too much about one shrub in the run not getting enough water. It will adapt or die. Remember, the chickens are going to dig like diamond miners around that shrub and challenge it's survival more than any lack of water. It will still get water by sending roots out a little further and deeper.

I also recommend loosing the angled wall. If you do this, you will have a 12' length on the front side which is better for lumber purchases and you only lose about 13-14 sq ft of area.
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I agree and that angled wall will be a nightmare to cover on the top. I know this from experience and would never do that again.

 

[DuckyDonna]

I agree and that angled wall will be a nightmare to cover on the top. I know this from experience and would never do that again.

this is a drone image of our run. It's big, probably 50' x 40'. Hardware cloth all on the sides plus a skirt of it on the bottom overlapping the ground and welded wire on the top with a small tin roof over where the pens are. Tons of 4 x 4's were cemented into the ground and we did use 1 x 6's and 2 x 4's to support the top. About a million screws and washers to attach all the wire. Hopefully nothing will get in. We don't have bears so we should be good.

 

[Wee Farmer Sarah]

this is a drone image of our run. It's big, probably 50' x 40'. Hardware cloth all on the sides plus a skirt of it on the bottom overlapping the ground and welded wire on the top with a small tin roof over where the pens are. Tons of 4 x 4's were cemented into the ground and we did use 1 x 6's and 2 x 4's to support the top. About a million screws and washers to attach all the wire. Hopefully nothing will get in. We don't have bears so we should be good.
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That looks really nice. Lots of room. For ducks this is great, but I would be a little concerned if there were chickens running around with all the mud.

 

[DuckyDonna]

That looks really nice. Lots of room. For ducks this is great, but I would be a little concerned if there were chickens running around with all the mud.

It was built last fall and there used to be all nice grass in there but we had to use an auger to put in the 4 x 4's so it basically dug up most of the grass, actually all of the grass. I've got the angled area blocked off so the grass can grow and it is growing nicely. Once the weather gets warmer I will block off another area of the big run and plant some grass seed and give it time to get established.

 

[Chickenclaude]

Those anchors will drive the load to a point and actually cause the post to sink.
If you read my coop article, I was thinking more along the lines of attaching the post bases that I used directly to the level timbers using long structural screws. Obviously footers are far superior. The footers took the longest time for me to make because my soil structure is the same as yours. Lousy with rocks!
For your design, you would need three posts for both the north and south walls of the large run section and two posts for the north and south walls of the small section.
I'd nail two, twelve foot 2x6s together to form each beam to sit ON TOP of the posts for the large section and again double 2x6s at 10 ft for the smaller section. Birds mouth the 2x6 rafters and attach them 2 ft on center, nail in the purlins and off you go. Don't forget the lateral cross-bracing running north/south and east/west to prevent racking.

 

[Chickenclaude]

Look at where the arrows are on the picture. Those are 3 of those now listing posts that I used those post anchors for. My Raspberry bush supports. They are leaning at least 6” inward. NO WAY. Can they support a run. They are intended to replace fence posts which are also attached to the fence itself.
Consider a lightweight run. I made one w pvc and plastic coated chicken wire and zip ties and it cost under $100 and will give you time to decide HOW you want to do it...and yet keep your girls safe.

 

[Wee Farmer Sarah]

Look at where the arrows are on the picture. Those are 3 of those now listing posts that I used those post anchors for. My Raspberry bush supports. They are leaning at least 6” inward. NO WAY. Can they support a run. They are intended to replace fence posts which are also attached to the fence itself.
Consider a lightweight run. I made one w pvc and plastic coated chicken wire and zip ties and it cost under $100 and will give you time to decide HOW you want to do it...and yet keep your girls safe.

I would caution against zip ties in Massachusetts. The weather would likely make them snap before one season is up. A lightweight, portable run might work in your climate zone, but the weather here can get a bit harsh with Nor'easters, hurricanes, sub-freezing to 100 degree temperature ranges. Lightweight not really a safe idea here. Also, chicken wire will not keep out predators and a racoon or fisher would rip through it easily. Not to mention the occasional coyote or fox looking for a chicken dinner.

 

[Ladies-Eight]

I would caution against zip ties in Massachusetts. The weather would likely make them snap before one season is up. A lightweight, portable run might work in your climate zone, but the weather here can get a bit harsh with Nor'easters, hurricanes, sub-freezing to 100 degree temperature ranges. Lightweight not really a safe idea here. Also, chicken wire will not keep out predators and a racoon or fisher would rip through it easily. Not to mention the occasional coyote or fox looking for a chicken dinner.

I have found many of my zip ties on the ground. I replaced them with aluminum wire. Good advice.

 

[K0k0shka]

Thanks everybody for your input! I will definitely be cementing the 4x4's into the ground. Seems like there's no way around that. I'll rent an auger and hope it works. I still need to figure out how to attach the fence panels to the wooden supports, but it will most definitely not be with zip ties. They're just not a good long term solution. Maybe galvanized wire or if I can find some kind of brackets...

I have a similar set up - an irregular 400 sq feet that extend past my rectangular covered run and surround an apple tree. I covered it by criss-crossing nylon string (including through the tree branches) at high tension, then making a spiral spider web design, then covering it all with bird netting. It was a little awkward to get around the tree, but it successfully rebuffed a hawk last week, so it works.

It's really cool that you incorporated the tree into the run! I considered incorporating my little linden tree into the run somehow, going between the branches with something, but it's not just hawks I'm concerned about. We have very bold raccoons that come into our yard in broad daylight, so I wouldn't trust nylon string or bird netting. Plus, this tree will grow, so I'd need to keep modifying the mesh around it.

I agree that having a roof that doesn't slope would be easier, but I think it's good to have rain runoff, and I wanted a rain barrel and it seemed a good place to put it. I didn't have much trouble figuring out the slope. Frankly, decided that one side of the run would be 7' and one would be 5', and laid the 2x4s on top of the 2x4s on either side. The only tough part was figuring out the slope of the fencing.

The roof is definitely going to slope - I want it to shed both water and snow as much as possible. And the slope is sort of pre-determined by the size of the fencing panels I'll be using. Works out well though because that will give me a good pitch.

Hi, I just wanted to comment about putting heavy things, like pavers and rocks around the base of your trees. This isn’t a good idea, if you really want your trees to survive, as it compacts the soil, making it harder for nutrients, water, and air to get to you’re trees’ roots. It’ll take a few years for them to die, but you can’t reverse the damage, once it’s done. Good luck with your project. I have high hopes for you.

Thanks! I think I'll put down chicken wire around the base, pinned with garden staples, and a thick layer of wood chips on top. Hopefully that will discourage deep digging in that area.

I agree and that angled wall will be a nightmare to cover on the top. I know this from experience and would never do that again.

I'm building a scale model to test out my idea. I want to try it small first before giving up.