Need help of thought...Future investment in land for Farm/agriculture?

[HennysMom]

If you're not going to be building on said land to live on it yourself and will be putting just livestock on it - 30-40 minutes is quite a distance to drive each and every day to tend to animals.

I dont know about you, but I know my chickens require changing of water sometimes 4-5 times a day. When our dog was alive, (and he was inside 90% of the time spoiled rotten) but when outside in his pen (which is where our chickens are now) - he would require water changings constantly in hot weather.

Livestock NEED tending to daily - sometimes a few times a day. What happens when they get sick? how will you get to them quickly? Who will watch them and tend to them when you are not able to? Do you have a vet that will come out to that area you're looking to invest in? What are the laws for having livestock and NOT living there? Bet there are some in place that stipulate you must be on-site or have someone within a certain timeframe/distance that can tend to them.

Pat is correct - fencing alone is huge money - even cheap fencing - which you cant do with cows or horses, there are minimum requirements for each and must be abided in order to have them. We have friends that have both horses and cows - and thier horses alone run them around $1,000 a month in feed, hay, ferrier and medications, not to mention stable hands when they are gone on vacation and when they get sick, or just regular meds they may require. Cows - same thing.

Do your homework before getting any animal - too many people dont and its what results in animals at the pound. Although with livestock, there just isnt a place to take them to - and they are all types of costly because it now becomes a specialty vet/doctor that is required.

 

[patandchickens]

Yup, as soon as you have an animal that requires doctoring multiple times a day -- and this is really pretty common -- 40 minutes is going to be awful long, and awful *expensive*.

Good luck,

Pat

 

[jlmann]

Do you guys think five acres is a good amount of land for what I want?

You would really be surprised what you can do with five acres. On our land (@ 6 acres ) we have : 4 xtra large pecan trees
2 xtra large black walnut trees
2 apple trees
1 peach tree
2 or 3 plum trees
1 sweet cherry tree
blackberries, black raspberries , blueberries
6 garden plots in sizes from 16 x 16 to 8 x 24
4 large flower beds for the wife
three stall barn with 1/3 a chicken coop with a fenced run (the
coop part is @ 12 x 40 )
seperate small barn w/lot for bottle feeding calves
heated outdoor brooder for chicks
house, carport and workshop
pond that sits half on my land half on neighbor's

I could list more but my point is with creative land use you can really do a lot with 5 acres. Some people that grew up in the city really don't have a concept of how big an acre is. With all of the above I still have a lot of grass to mow and about two acres my neighbor cuts for hay plus maybe an acre that is wooded. Of course , any ammount of land is a good investment unless you pay too much for it, but really think it through and research it thoroughly because you don't want more than you can take care of. Best of luck!​

 

[Rosalind]

Before doing ANYTHING else I must STRONGLY recommend you read You Can Farm by Joel Salatin.

It's mainly about how to make farming successful. As opposed to the phenomenal, unimaginable ways that things will go wrong if you simply do whatever you think would be nice. And he details in there the merits of various kinds of land and how it can be improved--or not. One thing that others have said, which I will echo, is that you want to diversify and not get in over your head. That is, make sure that of all your crops, they are none of them any bigger than your family can manage in an emergency. For example, an acre or two of sweet corn can be hand-watered even during a drought, by a few people using their household well, and you'll still have a decent corn crop to take to the local farmer's market. 20 acres of corn in a drought is a total loss and a giant waste of money, because you need a grand irrigation system and more water than a single well can supply in drought conditions.

Another thing that's very important, think about marketing. Be hardheaded about running the numbers and making things pay. How can you get multiple crops out of the same land? Can you keep bees in the orchard, plant strawberries under the fruit trees, and run Thanksgiving turkeys under the trees after the June berries are done? Can you put up electric fencing around your woodlot and run goats or pigs in there to clear the brush and eat acorns? I know some wineries that run the grapevine prunings through a chipper-shredder and grow gourmet mushrooms on the resulting mulch, then sell the spent mulch in bags for fertilizer. That way if you have a bad year with one crop, you've got the other ones to make up for it.

This is true even on a VERY small scale. I live on two acres, and I'm very glad that whatever else goes wrong with the garden, at least I'll be able to count on maple syrup and hickory nuts. The only reason I wish I had five acres is so I'd have enough space to grow ALL the critter feed and some nice textile crops. As it is, I grow most of the human food.

 

[jnjross]

5 acres? check with permit office. if you own over a number of acres you can be exempt from having to get permits for ag structures , here it's 10+ , so we got 11 only need a permit for the house , nothing more.

 

[Chicken7777]

I was able to call the zoning department for the land/properties county.
They told me that the minimum amount of land to make it AU(which means agricultural/residential) and not have a limit on amount of animals(i guess withot permits) is 2 1/2 acres. The one I am interested in is five so I should be good to go on that...Im going to keep doing some research on all that.

One thing for sure everyones right with the expenses and all. I know that first off if I do buy the land I am going to add the fencing, fix up the soil/plot it and organize where I am going to put what in the land, so that I can first add the crops/fruit trees and then from there I should be able to decide when exactly I am going to have the chickens, and other animals. I might not buy horses until way later when I see that I can actually afford it and can have the extra expense.

 

[ruth]

Just be prepared that no matter how prepared you are, it will cost more in dollars, time, equipment, energy and emotions than you ever planned on. I started my small farm a little over a year ago and I go to bed totally exhausted at the work required and I consder that I started really small. As someone posted, the animals consume more time and energy than I could have ever imagined - watering/feeding several times a day - daily doctoring someone for something - breaking up fights - checking on them - rounding them up - letting them out - the list is endless. I truly don't think it would be possible to have what you described if you did not live on the property. I'm afraid to take a half day off and go to the nearest town for lunch. If you don't live there, someone will take your animals, fruit, vegetables and your livestock can't be left alone or predators will find a way to wipe them out.

It's a great idea and you can do it, but just be prepared to live there and work it full time. You also need to be prepared that you may not be able to sell the property if it doesn't work out for you so in that sense buying farm land isn't the same as buying housing.

 

[HennysMom]

Oh I agree - you can do A TON on 5 acres

We have just over 5 acres and while the only animals we have are our 6 chickens -thats enough for me LOL! They take up ALOT of my time in tending to them because I'm so meticulous in their pen being so clean and keeping them healthy. DH would love to have a cow, but...that would mean clearing out the woods and fencing in alot of the land, which I dont want to do (cant afford it) and - we like to go places (vacation is nice

) and as it is we have to hire someone to "chicken sit" when we are gone (Eggs need to be gathered daily), so I cant even imagine a cow. But - out of our 5 acres - around 3 are open with the rest wooded - the pond is in the back (a little over 1/2 an acre pond). We just had to breach the dam on the pond (had a hole in it from years ago) and if we didnt have a friend come out to do it for us with his tractor - that little breach would have set us back around $1K alone. To fix the pond, our estimates are anywhere from $5-7K!!

and its a naturally fed spring pond - been here since the house was built (1861). To dig a pond and start from scratch.. HOLY COW! CHA-CHING! But anyway.. I digress

When we moved in here in Aug 07 - I immediately began planning what I was going to be planting and April, the fruit trees went in. For 7 dwarf fruit trees it was close to $200.00 - then I added grapes, blueberries, blackberries, and raspberries. Mind you - I only added 2 plants of each and on average they were anywhere from $9-14.00 a piece depending on what type you get. The nursery I ordered from guarentees their plants, but - its still costly. Add in time to plant and water - and keeping deer and other critters away and I'm into the hundreds for manhours. We also have black walnut trees - and gather those for harvest in the fall. This year I will learn to make walnut stain and sell it. Our fruit trees should produce this year (and if you purchase full size or even semi-dwarf fruit trees - be prepared to wait quite a few years for them to bear fruit....) - dwarf fruit trees will produce fruit at year 2; if you're looking to make money on your farming venture - you need to take into account how long your crop will take to mature as well as harvesting times. Apples come in late fall whereas peaches come in in the summer.... know your schedules, its very important.

Then the garden comes into play. Our garden is now 40X50 - large enough for our family of 4. Seeds are expensive if you've never priced them (unless you can barter and swap) - we purchased ours in bulk from the Co-Op so I can plant multiple crops and have extra for next year - and we spent around $60.00 in seeds - but this is a small scale garden, however I am out there every single day tending to it and it takes up TONS of my time when it comes in. Weeding, preventing deer, groundhogs, bugs... ugh!

On average I must spend a good 1.5 - 2 hours in the garden a day when the crop comes in- but there are days when I can spend more than that if I'm weeding by hand when the plants are smaller and cannot be tended to any other way. Are you going to go all organic and tend to bugs that way or are you going to do a chemical to prevent crop disasters? Read up and do the homework first... I cant tell you how many bugs and critters eat my fruit trees and garden crops - and I've learned through trial and error (btw.. I do organic) on what works and what doesnt.

So yes... it can be done on a small scale, but... it does take alot of time and engery as Ruth and Rosalind said - and it does take an exorbitant amount of money up front for costs - and machinery to tend to your small farm. A roto tiller alone wont do it... you will need a small tractor like a garden tractor - and trust me - those alone are VERY expensive. We are in the market for one and new they will run you $14-20K - used, you're talking around $8-10K and that is NOT with any implements except the front bucket. Start adding in the implements and you're adding around $1500-2K per implement. We hire a neighbor to do our garden right now because we dont have a tractor and thank god we do because we simply could not roto-til it by hand, it just wont work.

Good luck to you - it can be done and I'm glad you're considering venturing into a small hobby farm! I was a city girl who married a country boy 20 years ago - this has always been a dream of his - and mine...and now we have it and WOW is it alot of work, not to mention renovating an old house on top of it all, but I wouldnt trade it for the world! Too many farms are going by the wayside.... just know everything up front before hand and you should do fine.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

I'm just gonna jump in here and say that 30-40 is going to become quite a hassle when driving there every day. Not only that, but most animals (I.E. Horse, goats, etc) will need feeding TWO times a day. Feeding doesn't usually take that long, probably less than the drive itself. However, now you will have to figure an extra four hours into every day JUST for the ride over and feeding. That doesn't even include when things need fixing, or an animal gets sick.

When we first got a horse, we boarded her at a friend's house who lived about 30 minutes away. We thought "This is great, the horse will be so close!" At first, we visited her everyday to feed and pet. That got old reeeeal fast. We found ourselves going over there less and less, to the point where it felt like our horse wasn't even our horse anymore. It wasn't until that point that my parents decided to move so that we could keep the horse on our own property.

If you could find land 5-10 away, you would be MUCH better off. Even 10 is pushing it. I'm not sure where exactly you live, but remember...those animals will still need feeding and care in the dead of winter, whether it is snowing, raining, sleeting, fire falling from the sky...whatever the weather is like. Which brings me to another point.

The whole endeavor will be very costly, but that doesn't mean it can't be done over time! My family has taken a long while to build and rebuild shelters, fencing, etc. You can start off cheap (As long as it is sturdy) and rebuild when you have the money. However, you will probably be wanting some type of a barn on the property...so that will be a nice chunk of money up front.

If you are at all planning on moving any time in the near future, I would not invest your money here. If there is a chance you would be able to move, you are probably better off waiting to invest your money in a house AND farmette, so tha tyou can farm right off your own property. However, if that is not the case, then I would stick to land that is fairly close to your house. Like I said, anything more than ten minutes away will suck the fun out of farming within one year or less.

Good luck, whatever you decide!

 

[Chicken7777]

Thank you soo much for posts..ruth,Hennysmom, Chickerdoodle13 and everyone else.

You guys are most definently right. I am still looking around to see if I can find anything in the area that is closer because I know that sometimes driving can be a hasle and time as well.

When I first had the idea to start looking around for property(which was my dream a for a long time now to have some land) I had in mind that the land woud be for growing crops, and planting fruit trees. I have a small or you can say a good sized garden in my backyard right now but I was always thinking of being able to grow soo much more for myself and maybe even to give away and if possible even sell for cheaper than supermarkets do.
The vegetables I would love to grow in abundance would be Bell peppers, tomatoes, lettuce, etc Mostly the expensive vegetables that sell in the supermarkets these days. After thinking about all this I said to myself; chickens and maybe a couple of goats wouldnt be bad either...then said okay i could even have one horse to take rides around the land and see how things are doing with the crops.
Even though my first thoughts are buying the land, then clearing it, plotting it and growing the crops. I dont think Im going to have all the animals present anytime soon.

By the way Hennysmom, I am most definently going to grow organically. That is another reason why I want land soo badly, because i want to be able to grow things in abundance with better practices.
Have you guys heard of Neem? It is such a miracle tree.
One thing I have in mind is to purchase a couple of Neem trees and surround the land with them every couple of spacings, that way it will reduce the amount of pests, disease and even mosquitos from the area...I can even sell the leaves and/or neem oil to anyone interested once I have them large enough..

I do have to ask you guys...when you first bought your land, was it entirely covered in trees or did you have to remove some? I honestly think I am getting a really good deal for the five acres, but I dont think it is entirely removed from trees?...or even has a road..lol
I think I heard for every ten trees I remove I have to plant one...if thats the case I dont think it will be a problem since I do want to plant the neem, and fruit trees and am thinking of maybe making part of the land like an orchard...still a thought though.

By the way what do you guys suggest in me doing to evaluate it the land in value, and the important things like water, etc? removing the trees? and if you can explain how that would be great too!
Also I wish the land could have natural pond or lake but if it doesnt how/what do you think I should do to provide good water to the land? have it water accesible?..I would have to install some waterways I guess you can say.

I appreciate all the help you guys have given me.
Thank you.