Need help trouble shooting pullet weight loss

[ChickyMudder]

Wyorp Rock, you got me through some hard times with my sick chick and all my health related questions. Thank you for your wealth of knowledge. Praying that I’m just over reacting. I’ll weigh them weekly. Give 20% grower. Vit B and fresh air.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I haven’t seen any mucous or sneezing at this time.

I thought maybe MS. But I’ll wait, do what you advised, and get them tested.

O.k. I see you added more photos since I was last on, these are helpful.

Sadly, I'd lean more towards this being a leg bone deformity. Valgus-Varus, with this being Varus deformation.
Usually this is not correctable, and it can be genetic. Sometimes parent stock nutrition deficiency can be the cause or poor incubation.

Let's tag in @Eggcessive and @coach723 to read over your thread too and see if they have a different opinion and/or suggestions.

Classification of leg deformity. (A, B) Normal stance with mild flexion of the hock. (C, D) Valgus of right leg. (E, F) Right and left varus.​

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/disorders-of-the-skeletal-system-in-poultry/noninfectious-skeletal-disorders-in-poultry-broilers#:~:text=Valgus or varus deviation of,in turkeys than in chickens.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1790586/?page=3

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ith-mild-flexion-of-the-hock-C_fig1_332949715

 

[coach723]

I agree with @Wyorp Rock , get them tested for MG/MS to rule that in or out. The one picture that shows very swollen hocks could be that. The other could be a leg deformity.
If changing brands of feed is an option for you, I'd consider doing that for a while to see if it makes any difference in weights. With supply chain issues and cost of ingredient issues, some feeds are not the same as they were, recipes and ingredients change sometimes due to availability. I have had issues in the past with certain birds not absorbing nutrients or having trouble digesting certain brands and switching helped. That may not be the issue here, but if it's an option that is available without costing you too much, then it's worth trying. Also, always, always, check the mill dates on whatever bags you buy. Older feed can have reduced vitamin content, they degrade with time and if they are kept in improper storage conditions.

 

[Eggcessive]

It looks like varus leg bone deformity, and there is no cure. This deformity can affect one leg or both and gives the legs a bow legged appearance. The hock joint can appear more thickened in one leg. This article discusses varus and the opposite position valgus deformities and has pictures:
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._of_the_Intertarsal_Joint_in_Broiler_Chickens

 

[ChickyMudder]

Thank you so much for all your feedback. I’m encouraged. I switched feed, wormed, gave fuvilic and humic acid and supplemented vitamins to correct for absorption issues.
I have a call into the state testing lab and will see if they can do a PCR test while he is alive.

Praying it is just a genetic issue and I can let this line of BCM live out their days as layers - not breeders.
My gutt says it’s genetic because we don’t have others with MS symptoms and the pullets seem to have a slight narrowing of the same exact hock. Like they all inherited it but he got bad because he isnt absorbing nutrients/feed got old/stress from joining flock/got worms/???

The first roo that got it could have been swollen because I splinted him he was culled.

I will post the results of the tests.

 

[coach723]

Good luck. Did you hatch these at home, or were they purchased? If they were purchased I would not buy from there again. If it was a reputable breeder or hatchery, I would have a conversation with them about what you've had happen. A reputable breeder or hatchery would want to know if there is a genetic problem, or they could have insight as to what may have happened.

 

[ChickyMudder]

Good luck. Did you hatch these at home, or were they purchased? If they were purchased I would not buy from there again. If it was a reputable breeder or hatchery, I would have a conversation with them about what you've had happen. A reputable breeder or hatchery would want to know if there is a genetic problem, or they could have insight as to what may have happened.

I hatched them from a NPIP reputable breeder. I told him about the issues and sent pics. He seemed to already know his roosters legs were “sometimes a problem”. Red flag.
I avoid bringing in live chicks because I want to avoid disease or contamination on my land. MG would be the only big bad bugger that could slip by with me hatching eggs. Praying it’s not that

 

[coach723]

Well, definitely a red flag that he knew legs were a problem. I'm not real familiar with the NPIP program, but that doesn't seem like something that should be acceptable. I just wouldn't buy from him again.
Bringing in 1-3 day old chicks is usually ok, that is usually what you get from feed stores etc. It's the older birds, that were somewhere else long enough to be exposed to stuff that is usually a problem. Local people are hit or miss. I generally avoid it unless I know them well and know how the birds are/were kept. Some people are very honorable and good, many are not. Hatched chicks are usually shipped at a day old, so they aren't really likely to be exposed to most stuff. That doesn't rule out genetic issues, since you don't know the parent stock, but major genetic stuff the hatcheries generally work to avoid. If they sell bad birds they are not going to stay in business. And many of the larger ones stand behind their birds and will refund or replace when there are issues that were not caused by the recipient. They will also often guarantee sex and refund or replace. I don't like shipping chicks, rarely do it. But sometimes it's the only way to get what you want or need. I did it this year, lost two in shipping and one failed to thrive, so 3 out of 16. I was refunded the shipping losses, didn't claim the failure to thrive. But it was a breed I haven't been able to find anywhere in decent driving distance. I intend to breed them here now, and won't ship again unless/until I need to diversify genetics, that will be several years at least. There are a lot of threads on here where people got birds from someone local and ended up bringing in disease, sometimes it's heartbreaking. Sometimes it works out ok. Just part of all of the many things to consider when bringing in birds.
I hope it's not MG/MS and it's only genetics. As bad as that is for them, at least you will know it won't affect your other birds.

 

[ChickyMudder]

Well, definitely a red flag that he knew legs were a problem. I'm not real familiar with the NPIP program, but that doesn't seem like something that should be acceptable. I just wouldn't buy from him again.
Bringing in 1-3 day old chicks is usually ok, that is usually what you get from feed stores etc. It's the older birds, that were somewhere else long enough to be exposed to stuff that is usually a problem. Local people are hit or miss. I generally avoid it unless I know them well and know how the birds are/were kept. Some people are very honorable and good, many are not. Hatched chicks are usually shipped at a day old, so they aren't really likely to be exposed to most stuff. That doesn't rule out genetic issues, since you don't know the parent stock, but major genetic stuff the hatcheries generally work to avoid. If they sell bad birds they are not going to stay in business. And many of the larger ones stand behind their birds and will refund or replace when there are issues that were not caused by the recipient. They will also often guarantee sex and refund or replace. I don't like shipping chicks, rarely do it. But sometimes it's the only way to get what you want or need. I did it this year, lost two in shipping and one failed to thrive, so 3 out of 16. I was refunded the shipping losses, didn't claim the failure to thrive. But it was a breed I haven't been able to find anywhere in decent driving distance. I intend to breed them here now, and won't ship again unless/until I need to diversify genetics, that will be several years at least. There are a lot of threads on here where people got birds from someone local and ended up bringing in disease, sometimes it's heartbreaking. Sometimes it works out ok. Just part of all of the many things to consider when bringing in birds.
I hope it's not MG/MS and it's only genetics. As bad as that is for them, at least you will know it won't affect your other birds.

I believe MS and MG are tested at NPIP.
Sadly hatching eggs or even day old chicks can be infected with with mycoplasma.
I thought I was practicing great biosecurity but this scare had made me realize that even hatching eggs can be an issue.

 

[coach723]

Since they do test for that, then it seems more likely that this will turn out to be a bone deformity. If that's the case, then it's really sad that the breeder keeps breeding the birds that produce this.