need help w/ thermostat/ styrofoam cooler

[scooby]

We had a emergency momma got off the eggs they have 8 days to go, so we threw them on a heat pad, while we built a styrofoam incubator, I dont remember what type of thermostate i bought cause its been over a yr a very basic one, but we have never used it, anyways i'v been trying to get the temp right but i am having a problem, AT first it would get up to 102 and then click off, but within 3-5 minutes it would drop to about 88 and click back on.......take about another 5 minutes to get back to 102 then click off again............I had to run out, but looks like my hubby put stuff on it to hold the lid down tighter but now light is going off and on about every 30 sec. and holding at 94/96. Does this sound about right or am i doing something wrong. Should i tape down the lid and up the temp to about 100 also humidity is at 80 right now.

 

[onfurtherreview]

I built a styrofoam incubator myself, and didn't use a thermostat at all, just a dimmer. The temp needs to stay between 98 and 102, but going a little under for short bursts shouldn't hurt things too much. That humidity's WAY too high until lockdown - should be under 50.

Putting something inside that retains heat might help keep your thermostat from cycling so much. I put 5 lbs. of aquarium gravel and a 1-liter bottle of water in with mine and it seems like it's more stable that way - the water and gravel take a while to heat up, but they also take a while to cool down and if the temperature drops they will release their stored heat into the air inside.

The way I set my dimmer up for the right temperature was by sitting there fiddling with it for about an hour, checking the temperature every few minutes and adjusting it slightly up or down until it held steady for about 20 minutes without messing with it. The mistake I made was not checking it every hour or two for the rest of that day, to see if it was creeping up on me, but after one overheating scare I got it straightened out. I'm still checking it pretty often though.

I got my dimmer at Lowe's for about $5-6. It's the kind that screws into the light socket, but I used a couple of adapters and rigged it so I could put it between the 'bator's plug and the extension cord. It's not fancy, but it seems to be doing the job okay.

How is your incubator built? If we knew what kind of setup you're working with, it would be easier to figure out how to make it work for you. What kind of bulb? How big, how many, and where are the vent holes? What do you have in there for water? Do you have anything in there to use as a heat sink? Pictures would help a lot, but if not then it would still help for you to describe it for us.

 

[scooby]

well i went and bought a digital humidifier and temp gauge today( i had a mercury one) and right now it is at 95 temp and 43 humidity. i cant seem to get the temp to stay at 99. I keep nudging the thermostat up trying to get to 99 and every time i nudge it it will bump up to 99 and then when i check 30 minutes later it back holding at 95. cant seem to get the humidity right either. i tried getting the humidity down last night and couldn't figure out why it stayed that high then i realized the towel on the bottom had gotten wet, so i took it out and put a sm mason jar of water then couldn't get it back up. then i tried a sponge and got it to 60% but the sponge drys out pretty quick. hence why its at 43 now. i just can't get it stable and i am afraid of going over 102.
Right now i have a 29w that is suppose to put out like a 40watt bulb and last night with it cycling so much it burned out so i had to put in another last night. it is a pretty basic set up, cheap Styrofoam cooler with the light and thermostat through a hole in the side that's taped up. temp/humi reader on the bottom, eggs next to it on paper towels and a small mason jar w/ a kitchen sponge on light side, eggs and temp on farther side, glass taped on half the lid to see into.no vent holes didn't know i needed any. i will try to get a pic......
My eggs should only have 7/8 days left i set them under momma on 4/20 so they should hit 21 days on 5/10, i candled all last night and they are all still moving....... but i am almost wondering if they might be a few more days out then i expected for some reason they don't look as far along as i expected. but i could be wrong this is only my 2nd time with a broody.

 

[scooby]

Sorry about the pic i know there not the best! Any suggestions!

 

[onfurtherreview]

It seems like your problem is that the lamp is cycling too often, and you're losing too much heat for the incubator to keep up. Also, you may need to change bulbs to one that puts out more wattage - those "40w replacement" 29w bulbs just don't get as hot as a real 40w bulb.

If this were my setup, I would add some thermal mass and wrap the outside of the cooler in something to keep it from losing so much heat. A good thing would be to add some closed jars or bottles of hot tap water inside the incubator, near the bulb. If you put them in already hot, then they'll release that extra heat slowly and help bring up the temp a bit, but their main purpose is to "save up" heat when the bulb is on. That should keep the thermostat from cutting on and off so often.

Do you still have the piece of styrofoam you cut out for the window? If so, you could put about half of it back in with some tape. If not, you might tape something over about half the glass to keep so much heat from escaping. You're losing a lot of heat through that big window. If all else fails, you could put a towel over most of the incubator, with just a few inches of window showing.

As far as humidity goes, I wouldn't worry about trying to bring it up until lockdown day. For chicken eggs it needs to stay under 50% until lockdown, but lots of people incubate dry until lockdown anyway and they seem to do fine.

I'm glad to hear they're still hanging in there. From what I've read, temperature disturbances can throw off your hatch date a bit. As long as they're still wiggling, there's a chance.

 

[scooby]

Ya i was thinking the same about the bulbs, i bought them but didn't realize they were the "replacement" bulbs till after i had got home and put them in, the only other thing i have on hand is "real" 60 w bulbs. do you think that would be better? should i switch to a regular 60w or would that be too much?
so would adding Mason jars of water help keep it from cycling so much? i have plenty of those. i don't think i still have the piece of Styrofoam, the window is fully taped on the outside of the lid maybe i should tape it on the inside to? the window itself is a 5x7 picture frame. maybe i will try putting a blanket over it the whole cooler to hold in the heat better....also i have spent the last 2 night till 3 in the morning "stabilizing the heat at 99, but during the day it actually drops in temp to about 97 without me touching the thermostat. but i don't know the reason for this......
As for the humidity. i have used just a open mason jar of water ..stayed at 30, a sponge in a mason jar of water would dry out fast within 2 hrs, sponge in a flat Tupperware container droped back to 30, last night i tried a damp sm. hand rag and it shot up to 69..... so then i tried only a half damp rag still stayed at 67. so i took that out and put the wet sponge back in and it is droping and at 50 right now,but still droping........... how do i stabilize the humidity what am i doing wrong and what else can i use.

 

[scooby]

Another question, I to have read that if the temp is lower that sometimes they will go a few extra days, so heres my question..... i set them under momma on 4/20 so 21 days should be this Friday 5/10. lock down should be 3 days right... so that means i should lock down on wens day right? what happens if i lock down and they are still a few more days out cause of the low temps?

 

[onfurtherreview]

Closed mason jars of water sound like a good idea to me, especially if you use warm (not too hot though) water. That should help with the spiking. I'm using a Powerade bottle for that right now myself.

A 60-watt bulb shouldn't hurt, because it would just come on less often than a weaker one for the same temperature. I'm using a yellow 60-watt "bug light" bulb myself.

Your eggs need a little air, so if you could cut a couple of small holes (about the size of a dime) in the lid and another couple in the side a few inches above the eggs it should help, and it will also drop the humidity a bit. Keeping the humidity around 30% shouldn't hurt anything, just don't let it stay too high before lockdown. Make sure you get the humidity up around 60% or higher for lockdown and tape over any air holes you make.

Keeping the heat inside that thin cooler may be a little more tricky... you don't want to do anything too drastic there all at once. If you could put a towel over half the incubator, that may keep in enough heat to do the job. Putting a blanket over the whole thing might make it overheat, and could even be dangerous if something goes wrong and the thermostat gets stuck on. Also, as long as the window is sealed with tape, I wouldn't worry about taping the inside too. Maybe you could drape a washcloth over it when you don't need to look inside? I do that for a few minutes after I've had the lid off to help the temperature get back up more quickly.

I don't know what to tell you about whether or not to wait to lock down. Maybe someone else has an answer for you, but if I had to guess I'd go by what the eggs look like when you candle them.

Here's a few pictures of my styrofoam cooler incubator. It's held fairly steady for not having a thermostat, and out of 24 eggs, I have good development showing in seventeen, I broke one, got two blood rings in clear eggs, and I have four I'm not sure about because of the dark shells.


The cooler is one of those that's used for shipping frozen meat. The window is a 5x7 picture frame, same size as yours, but I glued it on instead of taping. I have six dime-sized vent holes on top, and three quarter-sized holes on the left end. All that black duct tape on the front, side and top is to cover up where I drilled too many vent holes before I thought of using a dimmer - I'm too cheap to buy a thermostat.


The sides of this cooler are really thick, almost two inches, and they're the same thickness all over, including the lid.


On the inside I have an analog thermometer with hygrometer, and a digital one to keep track of any temperature or humidity spikes while I'm away. I was having problems with the light shining on the black casing of the digital one and heating it up too much, so I taped a piece of foil up to shade it.


This picture shows what I was talking about with keeping the digital thermometer shaded. The light socket is glued through the side of the cooler and plugged into a lamp dimmer on the outside.

At first I had this bottle full of water and closed, and a plastic tub with a sponge in it on this block of styrofoam for moisture, but I couldn't get it to stay below 55%, so I just took the bowl out and took the top off the bottle, and now it stays around 35% most of the time.

The black stuff in the bottom is aquarium gravel, to help hold the heat steady.

I hope this helps.

 

[scooby]

ok new question, my husband saw that one of the eggs has a little like circular hairline crack with hairline craks coming off it, not sure if this was there prior, but i didn't notice it if it was or if possibly it was done when the temp guage droped and i cracked one of the other eggs. anyways not sure what pipping looks like my hubby swears he saw the egg move but i watched it for awhile and saw nothing. but they are still 5 days off.....what do i do, do i up the humidity do i turn them do i just leave it, also i opened the bator after he saw the fractures to put in the sponge cause the humidity was real low but now its up to 65, should i be worried, should i just lock it down with 5 days to go i don't know what to do i am so nervous, i don't want to mess up. HELP!!!!

 

[onfurtherreview]

I saw in another thread that you should put clear nail polish over the cracks. It seems to work for the people who have tried it.

At this point you might just want to take all of the water out until the humidity gets down in the low 30s. If the humidity is too high for too long it can harm the chicks. That's why it's not good to lock down too soon.

You're doing fine. These eggs were abandoned by the hen, at which point none of them would have had any chance at all if you hadn't tried to save them. If you get even one chick to hatch after all you've gone through with them, you will have done something pretty great, since the only thing that gave any of them a chance was your quick thinking to build this little incubator and get them into it. If this hatch fails, it won't be because you didn't try your hardest, it's just a lot harder if you have to do all of this in an emergency instead of having time to plan and get things just right. I had all the time in the world to plan and get things just right, and I'm still learning new stuff every day, and still making little mistakes, still figuring stuff out as I go. No matter what happens, it's going to be okay.