Need input - would this mix + Kalmbach work?

[2ndTink]

My goal is to use readily available Kalmbach feeds as the base of the feed ration but increase the fat, fiber, vitamins and amino acids to better support the needs of a large fowl breeder flock.

The mix I am considering is this:

Mix:
50# Kalmbach 17% nonGMO layer crumbles
15# Kalmbach 20% nonGMO Flock Maker
3# Alfalfa meal
1.25# Fertrell Breeder Supplement
0.02# methionine
0.10# Lysine
1# corn oil
2# scratch grains
2# Sunflower meal
+ vitamin E oil - TBD

Total batch weight = 74.37 pounds

Mix value is in the front, recommended ranges pulled from the Poultry Breeder Nutrition facebook page in parenthesis.
17.8% protein (17% to 18%)
6.1% fat (5% to 7%)
5.3% fiber (5% to 7%)
1.15% Lysine (1% to 1.2%)
0.50% Methionine (0.45% to 0.55%)
75 IU/lb Vitamin E (80 to 120)

Any thoughts or concerns on this mix?

 

[Debbie292d]

@U_Stormcrow or @NatJ, could one of you give your opinion? She's also helping me decide how to improve my silkie feed a bit.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

My goal is to use readily available Kalmbach feeds as the base of the feed ration but increase the fat, fiber, vitamins and amino acids to better support the needs of a large fowl breeder flock.

The mix I am considering is this:

Mix:
50# Kalmbach 17% nonGMO layer crumbles
15# Kalmbach 20% nonGMO Flock Maker
3# Alfalfa meal
1.25# Fertrell Breeder Supplement
0.02# methionine
0.10# Lysine
1# corn oil
2# scratch grains
2# Sunflower meal
+ vitamin E oil - TBD

Total batch weight = 74.37 pounds

Mix value is in the front, recommended ranges pulled from the Poultry Breeder Nutrition facebook page in parenthesis.
17.8% protein (17% to 18%)
6.1% fat (5% to 7%)
5.3% fiber (5% to 7%)
1.15% Lysine (1% to 1.2%)
0.50% Methionine (0.45% to 0.55%)
75 IU/lb Vitamin E (80 to 120)

Any thoughts or concerns on this mix?

Why are you looking for more fiber? Fiber isn’t the same issue for chickens as it is for humans.

Ditto question for more fat.

 

[2ndTink]

Why are you looking for more fiber? Fiber isn’t the same issue for chickens as it is for humans.

Ditto question for more fat.

I am just wanting to try following the recommendations from the Poultry Breeder Nutrition page.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

I am just wanting to try following the recommendations from the Poultry Breeder Nutrition page.

A Facebook page? Do they supply their credentials? Training, etc.

(I don’t mean to be rude. It’s just that there’s a lot of crap posted on social media without any basis in reality.)

 

[NatJ]

@U_Stormcrow or @NatJ, could one of you give your opinion? She's also helping me decide how to improve my silkie feed a bit.

Sorry, this is a level of detail that I don't do on feed.

I notice you've already tagged the person I would recommend, so I don't have anything useful to add.

 

[2ndTink]

A Facebook page? Do they supply their credentials? Training, etc.

(I don’t mean to be rude. It’s just that there’s a lot of crap posted on social media without any basis in reality.)

The page is ran by some folks who work for Fertrell, they supply the feed ingredients to a lot of mills and they help feed mills create their recipes, they are very educational and helpful for anyone looking to create a best ration for their flock. They have feed calculator files and samples rations available if you want to create your own feed from the ground up. I wanted to base mine on something readily available with just some simple additions since I don't have mixer, grinder, pellet equipment.

You are right, there is a TON of completely incorrect information on fb and now there's a lot of AI stuff as well that is completely nuts and wrong.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

My goal is to use readily available Kalmbach feeds as the base of the feed ration but increase the fat, fiber, vitamins and amino acids to better support the needs of a large fowl breeder flock.

The mix I am considering is this:

Mix:
50# Kalmbach 17% nonGMO layer crumbles
15# Kalmbach 20% nonGMO Flock Maker
3# Alfalfa meal
1.25# Fertrell Breeder Supplement
0.02# methionine
0.10# Lysine
1# corn oil
2# scratch grains
2# Sunflower meal
+ vitamin E oil - TBD

Total batch weight = 74.37 pounds

Mix value is in the front, recommended ranges pulled from the Poultry Breeder Nutrition facebook page in parenthesis.
17.8% protein (17% to 18%)
6.1% fat (5% to 7%)
5.3% fiber (5% to 7%)
1.15% Lysine (1% to 1.2%)
0.50% Methionine (0.45% to 0.55%)
75 IU/lb Vitamin E (80 to 120)

Any thoughts or concerns on this mix?

Initial thoughts (I'll have to come back to this, as i am time crunched this am).

Setting aside my inherent distrust for anything found on Facebook, the "goal" of this feed appears "confused". Chickens don't benefit from fiber like we do. You can't buy Met off the shelf. Fertrell's web page doesn't advertise a "Breeder Suppliment", but "Show Pro" and some others do. They look like Fertrell's Poultry NutriBalancer in a lot of ways, including the addition of synthetic Met and Lys. The amount of synthetic Met you can add, by law, is limited for commercial feeds and poultry intended for commercial sale. This exceeds that. The benfits of that are then "watered down" by the addition of corn oil, alfala meal, scratch, and sunflower meal - the alfalfa meal provides unneeded fiber, the other ingredients largely add fat (but also more fiber). Fat is energy. Its used to make big birds, and active birds.

The biggest issue w/ breeding big birds is that they get too big to "do the the deed", and they are typically contained, to control which roo mounts which hens. The feed recipe seems contrary to addressing the usual problems, and the usual management methods.

As to the nutritional numbers? No idea where they pulled them from. The Met and Lys numbers are near the ones I use for a STARTER feed, the fat and fiber are acceptable (though near the edge of what I would consider acceptable for that purpose), but getting an AA profile that favors Met and Lys so much, with a CP that (relatively) low is going to be extremely difficult w/o commercially illegal levels of synthetic AAs, which are both expensive, and not something you can buy off the shelf. The Kalmbach feeds you start with already have adequate E for this purpose. Also, your Ca level will be high for your Roos, low for your hens.

Strongly suspect someone has emphasized CP in making this recipe, who is not aware that CP is merely a useful analog for what we are actually interested in - the AA profile and relative inclusion rates of key AAs.

Initial thoughts, anyways.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I'm also going to note that the Kalmbach Flockmaker is already close to what you want, in terms of Met and Lys (in target), without need for all the mixing. Providing free choice Ca addresses the Roo/Hen difference in needs, while the "extra" CP is ALSO an energy source, (almost) just like fat. Keeping the birds contained will limit activity, obviating the need for extra fat - or you could simply add a small amount of "good" oil, if that were important to you.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

and correction, I found Fertrell's "Poultry Show and Breeder Supplement" It has added Ca, definitely not good for your breeding Roos, a bunch of added Met (more than the standard, see above re: legal limits) and twice as much Lys as Met. The differences matter, but its similar enough to the standard Fertrell "Nutribooster" I thought was intended that the general thrust of my comments/views remain unchanged.