Need some advice about my filly..

[DFCottage]

haha I know it! What bugs me, is that IF I decide to sell her, that I know she will be a tremendous athlete wherever she ends up.

When she was maybe 10 months old I turned her out in the ring (with a full set up hunter course) and she threw herself over 2 jumps, that were at least 2 6"! So she can definitely jump, no doubt there. I think she would make a great eventer or jumper, but I don't see hunters as being her forte, and sadly that was what I was wanting to do with her!

I suppose me telling her that I'm gonna trade her in for a gelding is probably not helping the situation.. haha

 

[Rare Feathers Farm]

Quote:
The kicking & rushing your space are both dominance issues which are lack of respect.

I'd do a lot of round pen work with her--lunge her....make sure she is listening to you and get her to respect you. Carry a whip with you. You don't have to beat her with it, but just a few pops if she turns her butt at you....have her turn & face you, without coming towards you. Keep her distance and make her ask you when it's time to stop and YOU make that call.....

As far as leading her--carry a bat and maybe try a rope halter (one that hits all the right pressure points) or even a stud chain on her and be quick & firm when she gets ahead of you.

The kicking is dangerous and maybe worse in some ways than the rushing, but in other ways, it's just as bad as the rushing/running you over. Horses are huge, powerful and even if they aren't trying to hurt you (the rushing, I mean--the kicking, yes she's trying to hurt you)--they can hurt you without even meaning to. I'm a professional horse trainer and I've had cracked ribs and broken toes from horses who had no respect on the ground. Truth is most horse-related injuries occur while you're on the ground.

Groundwork sets the foundation for the way that horse will respect you (or not) for the rest of it's life and once you're on it's back...you're really at it's mercy!

Your filly is also still young....and since she's a slower maturing breed, you've still got time to work with her. The slower maturing breeds do take extra time to mentally catch up, as well...my Peruvians & Andalusians are like that. And so are the Arabs, to some degree. I don't start mine until they are four. But from the time they hit the ground, they are being worked with on manners & respect. It's good that you've started & done so much with her already. I all too often see people that leave their horses untouched until they are two or three & then have to rope them, run them into trailers and then expect them to be finished saddle horses in 30 days!

Just keep up the work, work on respecting your space & letting her know you're the alpha mare!! Horses learn through repetition. Some get it in three or four sessions, others take hundreds of times of repeating the same thing, over & over before it clicks....

Good luck!

~Heather

edited because somehow my wording got turned into "long lining." I meant Free lunging...not with a lunge line and not ground driving, either...maybe it's a coast thing? LOL

 

[helmstead]

Quote:
Haha - nope, just like my threats to my mare that she would be sold to some wirey kid who wanted to run barrels and poles haven't helped her! (please no offense to speed event people - but this mare likes high gear, and I ride hunters).

 

[patandchickens]

Taking the last thing first, I absolutely categorically would not even *dream* of long-lining her until she is WELL WELL past this sort of behavior. For both your sakes. I expect you know that but am just making real sure

I dunno, some horses are just like that. I agree that sometimes horses can behave as you describe from ovarian cysts, hidden pain, etcetera, but some it's just their personalities -- and once they are well grown and experienced, for a rider with whom they really 'click' those can be terrific competition horses (mares especially). It is however a giant pain in the patootey for the first however many years

It's like they have to have each lesson repeated six hundred and forty seven times before they start to believe you. A few, in fact, need constant refreshers all their lives. Doesn't necessarily make them bad horses but definitely not everyone wants to deal with it

If you want to keep her, or think you might, I think the most sensible step is to either have a trainer whom you really expect watch several sessions of you working with her, or send her off to that trainer for a few months. See what the second opinion is. It is not impossible that part of your problem with her is just a clash of body language or of discipline styles -- some horses just take some things the wrong way, and it is awfully awfully hard to see this yourself.

Honestly though it sounds to me like your main attachment to this filly is more that she's yours and you've invested all this time and energy in her, rather than that you really feel the two of you 'click'....? If that is the case then especially since some of your problems with her involve dangerous behavior, I'd seriously consider putting her on the market (or sending her to a good trainer and then putting her on the market). I am NOT advocating dumping dangerous problems on unsuspecting purchasers, and I know you would be honest about her -- there are plenty of good horsemen out there who are willing to take on a challenging mare in hopes of getting a good show horse in the end.

It is a tough decision, though, I know.

Good luck, and stay safe,

Pat

 

[DFCottage]

Thank you everyone for the great advice. And no, I definitely wouldn't dream of long-lining her until we get these issues resolved!

I think what I might do is give her really serious sessions for the next month and see what happens. (Armed with my new information and tips!) I think if she doesn't improve, I'll send her off for 60 days or so. I feel like she will eventually come out of this, and will always have her slightly stubborn side, but I know the limits of my abilities at the moment, and maybe having another person work with her for a while would be a good thing.

 

[puckbunny87]

I've got to second equibling, ROUND PEN! Lol. It did wonders for my grumpy old QH gelding when I was younger, worked fantastic for my snot-nosed paint colt when I got older. We used to work in a round pen w/ a lariat, and in the beginning (when they insist on being jerks) the lounge whip. Obviously, don't whip her, but if she gets uppity I'm not against popping them on the rear.

The round pen is where I learned that they are to respect you, and listen, whether they want to or not. Once I learned to assert my dominance, I was able to build a great relationship with both horses.

It sounds like you've done great with her already, I wouldn't give up on her just yet

 

[s6bee]

I really wish I could be of help to you. Just be creative in training, keep her guessing so she can't anticipate the work or requests, etc. She sounds a lot like the mare we recently got but at age 6 and a draft cross at 1300 lbs.! Ugh!
Good luck

 

[Skyesrocket]

I'm being curious. Why wouldn't you long line her now? If it is because of the issue of safety, I do understand that. Maybe have a trainer with you as you do it.
Long lining can be very effective in teaching a horse manners. At 2 you would need to use good judgement in the length of time and be sure to send her in both directions to avoid physical problems.
A round pen would work well too. Moving her when you want her to move...changing direction. You calling all of the shots to convince her that you are indeed the boss. At the same time having fun with it and keeping it interesting for her.
If you aren't comfortable long lining or doing round pen work, have a trainer do it for you with you there to step in to keep things safe and to raise your confidence.
It sounds like you have been doing well with her. It can be very frustrating...especially with young horses. But give it the best you can so you won't have regrets if you do decide to sell her.
Find a trainer that is willing to work with your involvement.
Best of Luck! Carrie

 

[patandchickens]

I'm being curious. Why wouldn't you long line her now? If it is because of the issue of safety, I do understand that.

I don't know what the original poster's rationale is, but certainly my reason for strongly disrecommending it at this stage is that it can be *dangerous* if you cannot trust the horse not to kick, spin round, or do other funky things. Especially if the line should get stuck under the tail (no matter how much you habituate the horse to it ahead of time). It is dangerous to the horse (can get wound up in the lines no matter what the trainer does - horses can move *fast*), and potentially dangerous to the trainer. And quite honestly, while it is good for making a timid horse bolder (to go out in front of you on his own) that same feature makes it a bit tricky with a horse who's already overly willing to go out ahead and make her own decisions.

(Unless you are talking about double longeing, where the trainer remains in the center of the longe circle, as opposed to long lining = ground driving..?)

A round pen would work well too. Moving her when you want her to move...changing direction. You calling all of the shots to convince her that you are indeed the boss. At the same time having fun with it and keeping it interesting for her.

I don't know the original poster, but I would say that fairly few people out there ought to be roundpenning an openly aggressive horse. It is a recipe for somebody, one party or the other, to get hurt, scared, or further convinced of the dishonorable intentions of the other. It can certainly be done to good effect -- but by no means by everyone, not even every good horseman.

Working at closer range and with a direct 'handle' on the horse (on a leadline, for example) is generally much safer for both parties while the terms of the contract are being negotiated.

JMHO,

Pat, who does a fair bit of long-lining in a dressage sort of way.​

 

[Rare Feathers Farm]

I'm not sure what the def. of "long lining" around here is? Is that lunging? I thought "long lining" was ground driving?

I was talking about free lunging. You just let her loose in the round pen & move her around....