Need to let off some steam about chickens at the fair

[Kansas Prairie]

I'm sure if some experienced chicken show experts wanted to teach to some 4-H and FFA kids the ins and out of show quality chickens they'd be happy to learn. Heavens knows there is money to buy cattle, goats, pigs, sheep, horses, many are registered and the majority are very high priced for fair competition. I'm sure some of these competitive parents would pay good money for "better" chickens if they were educated in this area. Several of the farm families are even competitive with the size of the RV's and generators they buy to stay in during the fair. They take their children to showmanship camps, judging camps.

Herdsmanship, and meat and egg production seems to be focus for most in this division. Many will not take home a chicken that's been to the county fair, they don't want to risk bringing home germs to their hen house!!

Some of these kids are 5th generation farm kids. They don't have their head in the sand they drive tractors that are guided by GPS and are high tech farmers. Several are awarded college scholarships in livestock judging and will help their college win national honors.

I have assisted the judge at the fair in poultry and rabbits and it's very educational to hear what they have to say. We have a family in our county that wins Champion, Reserve Champion and Grand Champion,and they go on to often win at the State level, but do you think they are going to educate their competition... no way!

...

 

[cassie]

As a 4-H parent, the chickens and the rabbits and whatever other
animals are incidental along the way.

What I am investing in is my child, and other children, as I support
and encourge 4-H.

True enough that good stock is to be desired at times.

But at the same time, I've had some old cur dogs that made some
pretty awesome pets.

Spook

I am going to say this and then I will shut up. It depends a lot on what you are showing, and why you are showing it. A fun match is one thing. However, if you are showing your animals in purebred breed classes where the public will see them and you, I don't think it is too much to ask that the animal be true to breed, properly groomed, properly cared for, that the exhibitor be clean and neat, and wearing the proper uniform, if there is one. It is a matter of pride. Back in the stone age when I was in 4H, I wanted to be proud of my animals. I didn't necessarily expect to win, but I did want to show off the best I had and I did the best I could with them. I also knew what a good quality animal looked like because I took the time and effort to learn. Our leaders expected no less of any of us. But that was a long time ago.

I have had any number of critters in my youth that were cross bred, misbred, of unknown parentage, poor conformation, or whatever. Some of these were great pets, and some of the goats were good milkers. But I kept these animals home and didn't show them. I cringe when I see an exhibitor drag a dairy goat into the ring that is unsound, dirty, poorly groomed, poorly nourished, and walking on her udder. And how do you think it makes a kid feel when his/her entry is of such poor quality the judge gives it a second place ribbon in a class of one?

 

[chickened]

If an APA judge is judging the birds then it would be best if the kid knew why his bird was disqualified. If a nobody is doing the judging then let them show their mutts and have some fun.

 

[EMcD]

We just started with chickens this March, with 3 chicks. Our daughter immediately joined 4-H and is loving everything about chickens -- caring for them, learning about them, etc.Our 4-H club is all poultry (chickens, ducks, geese -- we don't have turkeys right now). The kids are learning about breeds and colors, etc.

Our girls were too young to enter in the judging (which is held before the fair). But she did "exhibit" them at the fair itself. But this is not a heavy competition environment here for the judging.

I would have hated for someone to tell my daughter she didn't deserve to exhibit her hens if they weren't breed standard. I'm sure it varies around the country, but at least in our club very few members would have the money talked about above to get a flock of true show quality birds, no less do judging or showmanship camps/training. Most do quality hatcheries or breed themselves if they have a good standard.

This is an incredible learning experience for these kids. They love to talk about their birds and answer questions. (Yes, this is where you get all the crazy questions and misconceptions people have about chickens...) When birds were mixes, we identified those.

Of course I'm not talking about birds (or other animals) that are sick or injured or failing. But, at least around here, I'm glad we get to "exhibit" the animals these kids have worked hard to take care of and learn about. The beauties do win the ribbons, and that's fine.

But a 4-H show should be about the kids, their projects, and their learning. It's not the same as an adult show competition.

 

[Prairieview]

I am going to say this and then I will shut up. It depends a lot on what you are showing, and why you are showing it. A fun match is one thing. However, if you are showing your animals in purebred breed classes where the public will see them and you, I don't think it is too much to ask that the animal be true to breed, properly groomed, properly cared for, that the exhibitor be clean and neat, and wearing the proper uniform, if there is one. It is a matter of pride. Back in the stone age when I was in 4H, I wanted to be proud of my animals. I didn't necessarily expect to win, but I did want to show off the best I had and I did the best I could with them. I also knew what a good quality animal looked like because I took the time and effort to learn. Our leaders expected no less of any of us. But that was a long time ago.

I have had any number of critters in my youth that were cross bred, misbred, of unknown parentage, poor conformation, or whatever. Some of these were great pets, and some of the goats were good milkers. But I kept these animals home and didn't show them. I cringe when I see an exhibitor drag a dairy goat into the ring that is unsound, dirty, poorly groomed, poorly nourished, and walking on her udder. And how do you think it makes a kid feel when his/her entry is of such poor quality the judge gives it a second place ribbon in a class of one?

Great points! Ultimately a show is not about “fun,” it’s about the livestock. Shows are meant as a way for breeders to evaluate their stock. If it was all about fun we would hand out lollipops instead of blue ribbons. When I was in 4-H I was a serious competitor. That meant spending a lot of time researching, learning, developing an eye, consulting with expert adults and working hard. The payoff was huge. Me and my siblings did everything ourselves, from the purchase of stock to the final show prepping. Because we were competitive we had to work hard. These are the important life skills of 4-H. We constantly had to deal with the undermining effects of “it should be about fun” parents whose kids didn’t really come away with much other than feeling an entitlement to a blue ribbon just because they showed up.

 

[cupman]

Don't they give every kid at least one blue ribbon anyways? Every time I go watch the chickens they are sure every kid gets at least one. Or a red sometimes.

 

[cassie]

It depends on what system of judging is being used. In the Danish system, the entries are judged against a standard, not each other. The awards are first (blue), second (red) and third (white). How close the entries conform to the breed standard determines how many blue, red, and white ribbons are awarded. I have only seen the Danish system used in market (meat) classes, never in breed classes. Usually, only the blue ribbon animals can be sold in the auction, but sometimes the red ribbon animals can be sold in the auction, too. Depends on the fair.

 

[EMcD]

As I mentioned, our hens were too young to show this year. But we did attend the judging show before the fair. I can say for sure that ribbons were definitely NOT given to every kid. Lots of chickens (ducks, geese, guinea hens) from lots of different 4-H kids did not have any ribbons at all. There were winners in each class and (I believe) they did judge based on breed standards, although I'm sure not as detailed as a "professional" or breeder show (sorry, don't know the accurate terms).

Perhaps the 4-H experience varies from area to area. I'm just glad that we have so many active 4-H clubs in our area of NJ -- we're too quickly losing any connection with the agricultural history. So, for here, they are judged but I'm glad the kids who work hard -- and who are learning -- are able to at least "show" their poultry, even if they don't meet standards or win ribbons.

 

[sourland]

Just went to our local county fair. The poultry show consisted of all 4 H birds. Yes, there were the usual mistakes - EE labeled as Araucana, Ameraucana. Americana - , but all birds were clean, evidently well cared for, in good shape and supplied with clean feed and water. Appeared to me as if the kids were learning the important basics. Just perhaps if they retain their love of poultry, make a couple of bucks and get a mentor they will be the breeders of the future. I find it difficult to be critical of kids and their club leaders trying to do the right thing.

 

[Stacykins]

At the Escanaba State Fair, there were no birds mislabeled as Ameraucana or Araucana. In fact, all EEs were labeled as Non Standard Clean Legged Fowl. It was very exciting to me, knowing that someone knew their stuff enough to identify them as not a true breed. There was one true Ameraucana, black, with proper leg color, comb, etc. and she was labeled as such.