Neighbors Problem Bull (Long Rant, Advice Requested)

Discussion in 'Other Pets & Livestock' started by OtterCreekRanch, Aug 6, 2011.

  1. OtterCreekRanch

    OtterCreekRanch Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Mar 16, 2011
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    Let me start out by saying that I do not own "our" cattle. All of the cattle we have, as well as the property they are on belongs to my elderly grandfather (this is where a lot of our issue comes in as we cannot personally start trouble with the neighbor). My husband and I take care of the herd and make all of the decisions, and he gives us part of the money when it comes time to sell calves. Of course the amount of money the calves brings determines the amount of money we get when they are sold. So it is important to us to make decisions that are profitable to everyone involved.

    We have always kept a bull, but I am getting to where I can't move like I used to, so I have gotten less and less comfortable doing anything with the herd because you can never trust a bull. I had gotten to where I did not even like going for a walk back to the pond at the back of the property because of our bull. He was a show bull and so he was not at all afraid and people, and while he was not aggressive, he always wanted to be scratched or to play. I knew if he ever came up to me out in the middle of the pasture and tried to head butt me (even playfully), I would be in trouble because there would be no way to get away from him. And so we recently decided to no longer own a bull, but instead switch over to 100% artificial insemination. Not to mention we had kept back a hand full of heifers from our bull, so it was really time for him to move on anyway.

    Apparently our bull was keeping our neighbors bull in his place because ever since we have sold our bull we have had an issue with the neighbors bull coming into our pasture. That would not be an issue except that we sell our calves as show calves whenever possible (because they bring a considerable amount more than at the sale barn) and his bull is not of good quality. In the past week and a half he has visited four times. The first time he came over was not a big deal. None of our cows were in season, but he did come over with one of the neighbors cows that was in heat. We penned the bull and cow up and drove over and told the neighbor they were there, and explained to him that it was not a big deal except that we did not want him to breed any of our cows. He did not understand how we could possibly not want calves from his bull because as he described him, he is an excellent registered high quality Angus bull. I have been around cattle my entire life and I can tell you that without a doubt in this world, this bull is a low-average quality Brangus bull. I tried to tell him that any calf that came of his bull mated to our cows would not be registerable and therefore would have to go to the sale barn to where they would sell for a lot less money. He never did seem to understand what I was trying to tell him.

    Well since that first encounter about a week and a half ago the bull has been back three more times. The second time he came back I witnessed him breeding our best cow who has our top selling calf each year who always goes to the same family who loves the calves off that particular cow. They would not be at all interested in a calf off the neighbor's bull. The third time he came back he was after one of our cows whom I could not determine for sure which one it was as it was getting dark and I was here alone and afraid to go out into the pasture with a bull I do not know by myself. Tonight he is back and after one of our cows. I am not sure if it is the same cow he was after yesterday, or a different one.

    Now, I do not want to be unreasonable, but this is all became a really big issue for us. Unfortunately my grandfather does not find it to be that big of a deal. He does not depend on the calf money like we do, so a calf is a calf is a calf to him. He does not want us to start any conflict with the neighbor, but something has to be done. We are already planning on taking the cows we know he was after to the vet to get a shot to keep them from becoming pregnant from these matings, but that cannot be good for the cows and it does not solve the problem of the bull most likely coming back next time they are in heat anyway. Not to mention the cost will start to add up if we have to keep doing this.

    We have asked for advise elsewhere on what to do, and the suggestions have been to 1.) Shoot the bull. 2.) Haul the bull to the sale barn. 3.) Catch the bull and run him out of our pasture and let the neighbor collect him out of the road.

    Obviously we do not want to do anything illegal (I am sure hauling him to the sale barn would qualify as illegal....possibly shooting him too), and I do not want to be the cause of any damage to anyone else's property if we were to let him out of our pasture and he went into the road and got hit or into a neighbors yard, but I really need to find some sort of solution.

    I am pretty sure he is just flat out jumping the fence, so I do not believe it is anything that can we fix through fence repair. Not to mention the neighbor had told us that if we provided the barbwire he would put up a new fence...two years ago. We got him the barbwire as soon as he mentioned it but two years later no fence has been built. He says it is too dry and the ground is too hard so he cannot drive new T Posts.

    What would ya'll do in this situation?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
  2. Bear Foot Farm

    Bear Foot Farm Overrun With Chickens

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    Mar 31, 2008
    Grifton NC
    Obviously we do not want to do anything illegal (I am sure hauling him to the sale barn would qualify as illegal....possibly shooting him too), and I do not want to be the cause of any damage to anyone else's property if we were to let him out of our pasture and he went into the road and got hit or into a neighbors yard, but I really need to find some sort of solution.

    Find out what IS legal before you try to figure out what to do.

    Call your Sheriff and file complaints and discuss options with them

    I'd tell him either fix his fence so it contains the bull, or you will be forced to shoot it because it's a "dangerous animal" and you are "in fear for your life"
     
  3. tonkatuff

    tonkatuff Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Apr 29, 2008
    Orange County NY
    File a complaint w/ the sheriff. Advise your neighbor you have filed a complaint & then shoot the bull if & when he returns. I don't see how it could be illegal to exterminate an animal that is a threat to the safety of you & your stock. The only exception here would be if the bull is entering the property because your fencing is inadequate but I assume since your cows are contained this isn't the case??
     
  4. Rusty Hills Farm

    Rusty Hills Farm Chillin' With My Peeps

    Apr 3, 2008
    Up at the barn
    Have you tried adding some hot wire to the common fence line? I haven't had this problem here, but at our old place the next pasture had a big ol' Brahma complete with horns. We have registered quarter horses. He didn't have any cows and would come "visit" our mares. Happened twice. The second time we added 4 strands of hot wire to his side, threw some buckets of water on him, then teased him through the fence. He got a hellofa jolt but after that, he stopped "visiting". I'm sure it will depend on how aggressive this bull is, but the jolt MAY be enough to make him reconsider. Now I know there are plenty of bulls out there that will go right through hot wire, so this may not help at all. I'm guessing you won't know unless you try. Since the wire is not that expensive, it may be worth the experiment.

    HTH


    Rusty
     
  5. SarahFair

    SarahFair Chillin' With My Peeps

    Sep 23, 2008
    Monroe, Ga
    My SOs aunt kept having this problem with the neighbors less than quality stallion.. she made him pay for the shot. And from my understanding they don't have anymore trouble
     
  6. welsummerchicks

    welsummerchicks Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jul 26, 2010
    I would get the barb wire back from him and put it up myself, and put a hot wire on the top of it. I think you should go over to the fence line and watch HOW he jumps it so you can tell how to modify your fence.

    I've seen people put up a second line of fence close to the first and very often a bull won't jump that twice. He'll get hung up on the 2nd line or if you put them a little apart, he'll jump the first line and not be able to get over the 2nd line. He'd have to jump at too steep or awkward an angle. The possibility is too that when he comes down over the first line, he gets hit in the face with the 2nd line, that tends to be 'aversive conditioning'.

    My aunt told me that when they had a neighbor's bull breeding their cows, Uncle Jack took out a book, a chair, a sandwich and a can of beer (well knowing Jack a 12 pack) and stat by the fence and shot the bull every time he set up to come over the fence - Uncle Jack used a little rock salt in his gun, so it stung but did not leave a wound. He 'trained' the bull, or at least he claimed he did! My aunt told me the bull kept trying a different spot on the fence line, thinking that spot wouldn't sting. Uncle Jack was a dead eye shot and he also was a very, very patient and determined man. Right in the front legs.

    FAILING THAT, the bull owner might be willing to put an anti-jumping harness on the bull - these are cheap and I'm told they work very well.

    I'd start adding up what the shots for the cows and difference in sale price for the calves are, and print up a bill for him, and ask him if he'd rather pay that or put an anti jumping harness on the bull.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
  7. nop169

    nop169 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jul 27, 2009
    I feel your pain! Had the same problem this past Sunday... neighbor said "your calf must be in heat" but did not apologize or offer to fix my just replaced fence line. Neighbor is older and his fences are falling down.
    Now don't get me wrong - I am a good guy & typically go out of my way to help my neighbors but as you know there is always one who is hard to deal with and guess who owns the bull? SO.....
    First I informed him that he needs to keep his bull on the other side of his 50 acres away from the adjoining pasture. Second - it doesn't matter if I have 100 cows in heat as long as they are on my property. It is my responsibility to keep my animals on my property and his to keep his on his property. Third to his comment that my calf is in heat and to just leave them alone until the bull breeds her... I DO NOT WANT A YEARLING CALF bred as she is both too young and too small. This is an orphan calf we took in and actually is the only one I now have but I do have 5 horses and if they get out & into the busy road..... that I would hold him responsible legally for anyone getting killed. Fifth - you cannot keep animals (especially a 2200 lb bull) in a pasture if your fences are falling down. MY fence line is new as of Feb. of this year when we replaced the 15 year old line DUE TO HIS BULL BREAKING THROUGH repeatedly over the last 5 years.
    The neighbor being the [email protected]@ he is basically denied any responsibility and sat on his four wheeler while me & my wife rounded up his bull and 5 other cow/calves out of our pasture in 100 degree heat. We fixed our fence and went in to shower & cool off. ONE HOUR later the bull was back. Neighbor said the bull "busted" out - the bull did break through his cross fence line (through the hay baling twine holding his fence together) - and he was "unable" to get him up due to him being disabled. OBVIOUSLY by this time I am HOT so I simply tell him he has 3 choices.... he can get his bull contained..... he can deal with animal control/sheriffs office ..... or he can bury his bull. Have not seen the bull since.
    Your county should have laws - typically you can go online for that state - google your state's code laws then find out your county animal control laws. Go to your sheriff office or animal control & sign a complaint - you might as well begin the process as it takes a while to get to a point where he will be fined if your laws are similar to ours. I understand a once or twice in years issue - but people like my neighbor just do not want to take their responsiblility so you have to force it. That being said - neighbor on the other side's bull broke in our pasture 8 years ago - he came immediantly, he fixed my fence & offered to pay for damage & I have never seen his bull again (tree fell on his line so bull came visiting). THATS a true good neighbor and responded as I would if my animal had gotten out.
    I feel for you but I am afraid you will have to formally complain before he fixes the issue. As to your breed prize cow - you probably know already - but you can use Lutalyse or something similar in order to miscarry her safely this early - talk with your vet and he can help you on that.
    Good luck!
     
  8. herfrds

    herfrds Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Definately see how this bull is getting through the fence. We run a hot wire on top of our fence post on spikes that hold it at least 6"-8" high.

    if I saw a neighbors bull breeding our best cow I would go off the deep end.
    A number of years ago one of our herefords had a black baldie calf. no one would confess to their bull being in with our cows or this cow being in their herd. Sold her. Neighbor up north is known for buying used bulls. no idea what he might have in his herd, had trich over 15 years ago.

    DH's grandpa had similar trouble with a neighbor red angus getting in with his first year heifers.
    First phone call Come get your bull
    Second phone call Come get your bull
    Third phone call Come get your steer.

    Out of 10 heifers that bull wrecked all but 2 of them.

    I cannot remember if if Texas has brand inspectors. I would check them out.
     
  9. allanimals21

    allanimals21 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Aug 27, 2009
    MN
    Quote:come get your steer! [​IMG]
     
  10. chickenlips1954

    chickenlips1954 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Although we didn't have "the bull" problem, we did have an on going problem with our neighbors cows knocking down or jumping over the single strand of barbed wire put up by our neighbor to contain his cows. We would find these cows through out our 5 acres, including our front and back yard, eating and destroying anything in their path or underfoot. We'd talked to and had the Branding Inspector come out and talk to him several times, threatening to haul his cattle off so that he'd be forced to pay a fine to get each one back. After numerous polite calls to this neighbor I directed the last conversation to stocking my freezer and having a steak barbeque for family and friends. He sounded appalled, but did nothing to remedy the situation. I ended up calling the sheriff dept., who came out immediately. We were told we could file a complaint and take him to court for damages or he could go over and talk to him to see what he could do. We opted for the deputy to go see what he could do. We got a phone call not long after from the deputy who I don't think really believed the severity of our problem with this neighbor until just then. It made us laugh at how frustrated he became at the stubborness of our neighbor! He closed the conversation with "If you ever have any more cows on your property call us immediately and WE will take him to court and make sure he is fined!"
     

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