Neurological symptoms quick death

[Naturalness]

One of my young hens died at about 6 weeks age. She looked fine, alert, but strangely unflustered when I picked her up, normally being very shy, because I noticed something wrong with her. Her legs were useless, not totally paralyzed but not able to stand her up anymore. I isolated her and provided her food and water. She accepted both though not overly enthusiastic. Her feathers and general appearance did not indicate malaise. Her comb was normal, her eyes were normal.
I had to leave for the day and when I came back 10 hours later she was dead.

I suspected Mareks but felt her age made it unlikely and the progression had also been too fast. I suspected botulism but can't for the life of me figure out how only this one would have gotten it if they're all eating the same feed in the same nursery area. Still with how fast she died it seemed the most likely or something similar at least.

This was three weeks ago and today another hen from the same batch seems to have the same problem. She can still stand but her legs give away. I isolated her again and gave her water & food, which she went for vigorously. Comb and wattles are red and her feathers are smooth. Again she seems less responsive when I or the dogs approach which normally would have sent her into a frenzy. But other than that she doesn't appear sick.

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm guessing that by tomorrow evening she'll have died just like the other one. I could perform an autopsy but I don't know what to look for... we don't have any poisonous creatures or plants here worth mentioning and all my young ones get the same feed. I'd like to know what I'm dealing with since trading chickens was part of my set-up and I obviously can't do it if there's a chance I'm giving others Mareks or something similarly undesirable. Any ideas appreciated

 

[azygous]

You are correct that these chicks are too young for this to be from Marek's.

I've had experience losing chicks to the symptoms you describe. One day, I was sitting in the run when an eight-week old chick came in and collapsed at my feet, literally its legs going out from under it. The chick died later.

That triggered a three-day investigation of all possible hazards that could be responsible. Just as I was going over all of the same territory for the sixth time in three days, my eyes landed on the log splitter sitting in the yard with chickens all scratching around it. I recalled see that little chick under the splitter just hours before it collapsed at my feet.

The ground under the splitter was soaked with hydraulic fluid. The sirens all went off. That was it. The petroleum distillates killed my chick and had made several adult chickens go lame. I immediately moved the machine out of the area and dug up all the contaminated soil.

I've also lost chickens to insecticides. The symptoms are the same, and death comes just as quickly after exposure. One of the things we may do is to spray insects in soil in a garden pot and then later water it. A chicken comes along and drinks from the puddle under the pot as it drains onto the ground. A few hours later, the chicken is dead after first losing control of its legs.

Finding the culprit may not be as easy as it sounds. We tend to insist on denying that we would ever do anything to hurt our chickens. So you need to accept that a human mistake may have occurred and be open to it when you see it.

 

[Naturalness]

Thanks. While I can't immediately identify any source of potential poison at least it's something that can be fixed if found, and more importantly can't be transmitted...

Is there anything else it could be and ways to reduce the suspects? I just really want to make sure I'm not harming other people's flocks. I've seen what introducing a sick bird to a new flock can do and it's not funny at all!

 

[azygous]

Mold is the only other thing that causes paralysis in young chickens.

Avian viruses start producing symptoms between eight weeks and five months.

There is always the truly freaky. Years ago, I had several baby chicks find a buck moth caterpillar and they pecked it. It had a powerful venom that caused instant neuro-symptoms and death.

 

[Naturalness]

I might have an idea of what could have caused poisoning: my feeding bowl was relatively close to the water bowl and some of the feed had accumulated underneath the water bowl that was resting on a plastic plate keeping the water with the feed. This would have been exacerbated by rain which we had right before the chicken got sick.
Not sure how I missed it, but as I cleaned out the nursery coop now looking for the culprit I finally noticed it and it not only smelled rotten but there were maggots in it too. I guess the chickens mostly ignored it but this one maybe didn't. Does this sound like a likely cause?

 

[azygous]

Yep, it could be if mold and bacteria were present. Wet feed and maggots on their own wouldn't. But, yes, it's a small clue, but it's enough.

 

[Naturalness]

The mystery continues and I still don't know what the problem is. I lost another even younger roo (about 5 weeks old) this time that had only one leg paralyzed but after about a week of waiting the second leg got wobbly too - maybe from overexertion or from the same that caused the first one to - and I decided to put him out of his misery.
There was no wet, rotten or moldy feed this time, so that possibility is ruled out

Now I have two older roos (about 11 weeks) that are showing early signs of wobbly legs or bad muscle control. And they are in a completely different coop and area. I finally found out that they (all) had a lice infestation with at least two different species of lice and am now in the process of treating all birds. Some have some, some have many and some have next to none, but surprisingly many of the younger chickens have plenty.

I've read that lice and mites can cause lameness, but I am not entirely sure by what mechanism and haven't been able to find any good information on it. Can anyone explain? Does it have to do with blood loss and arising vitamin and mineral deficiencies? Can I help them by giving vitamins?

One of the older roosters was treated against lice a week ago (with a permethrin spray) and today I did the second round but he was almost louse free. However his condition had not improved. He still walks as if really stiff, and he likes to sit more than others.

I hadn't paid much attention to the other roo initially because he was going to be eaten soon anyway, but I had to treat him today after seeing that one of his legs looked like it was spasming, not responding to his instructions. He had a good amount of lice on his body.

Any ideas? I'm grasping at straws here.

They all receive growers feed from a feed store.
Many of the growing chicks show signs of being unhappy - tail pointing down - but otherwise they're active and look and act healty, eating, drinking, crowing, etc. Initially I didn't think much of the tail down, but now I feel like it might indicate something generically wrong.
The ones that are healthiest are a group of chicks that accidentally got free ranged rather than put into a coop, and they have only randomly been fed at all.
My good friend in the same area feeds her chicks the same feed and there is no problem with her growing flock, so I don't think the feed is contaminated or bad, but I am suspecting that in combination with the lice it doesn't give them enough sustenance, whereas the free ranging ones get a more varied diet and so haven't shown signs of illness...

Any comments, ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[LaFleche]

Poultry mites will suck the life out of chickens leaving them anaemic and dead in no time.

Mites will also transmit all kinds of diseases while feeding on the birds sucking up their blood.

If you already find lots of mites and lice on your birds their coop must be housing a serious infestation and treating just the birds won't help much.

Move your birds to some other place far away from the infested coop and treat the coop inside and out, remove all bedding and burn it. Do not use straw as mites love the hollow stems and thrive in it.

Stick some double-sided adhesive tape to the underside of the roosts and around the ends where they meet the coop walls. The mites will get stuck to the tape on their way to the chickens.

Feed your birds scrambled eggs with millet and fine rolled oats, adding some natural greek yoghurt and oregano to the mix.
Get them hydrated and add poultry vitamins containing B-complex and E to their water

 

[azygous]

This is disturbing to us here. Losing chicks like this and not knowing why, is scary as well as maddening. We need to know your location, not a map to your house, just state, province, and country. Location often provides clues.

What is your water source? Sometimes well water can be very toxic to young chicks and still not affect humans. Fracking in your vicinity, if happening, can poison the ground water. Heavy minerals can bind with bacteria and kill chicks.

I would strongly suggest you locate an animal testing lab and have a recently deceased chick necropsied. Retain the bugs on the body and refrigerate, don't freeze, to preserve it until you can get it to a lab.

So far, the lice connection is the only one we have to link to the deaths. Normally, lice only feed on dead skin and feather dander, but some to suck blood and carry disease as @LaFleche has pointed out.

Have you distinguished that these are not mites? Lice have six legs whereas mites have eight.

 

[Naturalness]

Thanks for your replies.

We're in Spain, Catalunya to be precise.

My chickens get a mix of rain and well water but if it were something with the water then I would imagine all of them would get sick, but it's only affecting a few. I've had probably over 50 chicks + 50 ducklings hatch this year and most of them are fine. Some have already started laying and are looking healthy, others I've eaten.

There's no fracking done in our area, nor is there anything else I know of that could potentially contaminate that water source, since it's a very small aquifer. The water is relatively high in calcium but that's true for the whole area here and everyone gives their chickens well water...

So every now and then some get this lameness.

Now it's two mild cases currently and I just don't understand.The chickens have a coop, but it's not an indoor space. It's just a big fenced in area with a few shelters built from stone, roof and bits and pieces. Wild birds have access to this space, though they rarely come by.
My young ones have three separate, partially adjacent areas where I put them, to differentiate between chicks with moms and chicks without moms - since the moms can get aggressive - and different ages + ducks... And when the moms don't get along then one gets to free range with her chicks.

Also, while some of my older birds had a hefty infestation (now in treatment and looking much better), none of the older birds ever showed any symptoms like lameness. In fact they showed almost no symptoms, which is why it took me so long to find out they had lice in the first place.

As for lice vs mites, I haven't gone and counted every bug's legs, but the ones I have seen had a very clear louse like body - elongated, yellow-brownish or greyish. There's one type that lives on the heads and necks and sits on the feathers, the other type crawls on the skin pretty much everywhere but can usually be found gathering close to the cloaca. The birds I've treated with the permethrin spray were almost completely clean after a week and I will be doing at least one more round of treatment for them after the obligatory 2.
Within the shelter I have seen no sign of crawly bugs anywhere on the ground, and I've seen mite infestations in other places, so I know what it can look like and what it feels like when they start attacking you. My broodies in this sheltered space also don't seem affected in any way. Outdoors there no way for me to really see any bugs. It's all dirt and stones. In any case this does not seem like mites to me.

But, I have some Exzolt here and will give it a shot, once I can separate my ducks out of the coop and make sure the water will not be spilled all over by them. As for cleaning the coop, well apart from throwing the bedding away (I can't burn it because I live in a high risk zone for forest fires) and spraying everything with permethrin there's not much I can do. I don't trust DE, since it's never killed a single insect when I've used it from what I could tell, but permethrin seems to work well, so maybe some avidust to sprinkle on the ground?

I've added a multi vitamin mix with amino acids to their water for now - cause that's what I had on hand. I'll make them a nice egg & oats booster tonight... Not sure what else I can do...