New at Farming would like help!

[PrayingMantis]

Hello all!
We have purchased our home on 5 acres. At least about 2 are cleared and about a half an acre has a chain linked fence immed outside from back door patio. Beautiful landscape! We have always dreamed of having a small farm. We plan to place a veggie garden just outside the fence area, of course we need to factor in how we plan to keep the deer and rabbits out. We are also planning to plant fruit trees, apple, peach, and cherry. We thought for the first and prob only "farm animal" we would go with ducks that will provide us with plenty of eggs and hopefully some we can sell. We have ordered 2 Welsh Harlequins and 2 Cambells hopefully all female. We do not have suppllies yet, and have been looking online at various coops. So much to choose from even with our limited finances. We plan to keep the ducklings in our garage with the heat lamp at first until they are big enough to be outside. We have alot of foxes and hawks here so we need to ensure they are safe. We went with ducks because we have read they are less disease prone, is this true? Also, my daughter who is 5 is a thumb sucker, she has already managed to get a listeria infection when playing in my compost pile we had for a previous garden and pass it to the entire family. We dont want another infection that may come from handling the ducks, any suggestions and are we at risk of anything other than Salmonella?
Are we doing well so far with our thinking and plans?
So, we know we need a coop, and I see that there are attachments for the coops, (fenced in area for them to graze) We plan to place the coop within the chain linked fence area of our yard, I understand it will keep them in but not keep anything from entering it to get them. So do we have the coop and then fence that coop area as well? So like 2 layers of protection?
Also, would we need to bring these ducks into our garage in the winters? We have an attached and a detached garage so plenty of space. The wind here all year is terrible, we live in VA near the WV boarder. We have no problems teaching them the nightly routine is to go to a coop in the garage. There are no harmful fumes or chemicals that thay can be exposed to. Would this be best to do in order to protect them? I will be home most of the time, but when I must leave for any amount of time do I need to coop them up just in case a predator wants to attempt to get them during the day?
These ducks are also pets, we have two daughters that want to nurture them and we want them to be very social with us. Do we handle them alot when they are tiny and what is the best way to work with them to ensure they will be social with us?
We also have a not so bright 3 year old Boxer. How do we approach this?
Thanks for any input anyone may have!

 

[brandislee]

RE: infections- just be dilligent with hand washing. Since she's older you should be able to convince her how important it is to wash her hands before they go anywhere near her mouth, esp since she's gotten sick before. I know people FREAK about infections and their kids and many thing farm animals are too much of a risk, but did you know that kids on farms and kids who have been exposed to animals have significantly stronger immune systems? I've read studies done on it (can't for the life of me, of course, remember where, but I'm sure you could find them if you search), and annecdotally seen it in my own kids. We all contracted E.coli last year (from my inlaws, who run a pig CAFO, they had really heavy rain right before we came to visit and the well became infected) and the kids were only sick for about 24 hours. I barely got sick at all. My husband, who has nothing to do with our animals other than the dogs, was sick as a dog, and so was his sister, her husband, and their son (who live in town and not around animals other than their one dog).

Also on that note, the animals will be as clean as their surroundings. If they have a clean home with plenty of space (the smaller the space, the more concentrated the poo) and lots of outdoor space, and in the case of ducks clean water to bath in, they will be clean. Ducks who free range or have a very large fenced area are going to be cleaner.

RE: Your garden. I strongly encourage considering putting the garden INSIDE the fence. I know it's traditional to have it far from the house because it isn't particulary pretty, but you are more likely to keep up with it if it's close and, well, you have to look at it all the time In general I suggest looking into permaculture principles- I resisted reading about it for a long time because I had been gardening with raised beds for a long time and didn't want to change, but when I finally read about it it totally changed the way I look at my entire yard (and I do still garden in my large veggie garden using raised beds). What I like about permaculture- it encourages natural patterns vs. rows and lines, which I think looks better. It teaches you to stack purposes, which in the end makes for a lot less work. It teaches you to work with your land instead of against it. Gaia's garden is a good book for beginners- easy to read and not at all overwhelming. And yes, you can keep ducks inside the fence also. You can keep ducks out of the planted areas easily using low garden fence. I use this to "guide" my chickens around my yard, because chickens won't jump over it, and I believe (but I don't know for sure, I don't have ducks yet) that ducks are even less likely to jump over a wire fence than a chicken. But if you do decide to have it outside the fence 1) I still recommend the permaculture book, and 2) to keep deer away, nail some bars of Irish spring soap to posts so they stand about 3 feet off the ground, where the deer will smell it easily. This doesn't work for rabbits, but there are sprays, both store bought and homemade, you can use for rabbits. I personally only have issues with rabbits in my peas (which I don't even plant anymore) and my salad greens.

Whether the chain link is enough to protect your ducks will be completely dependent on your predator load. My chickens are in a 6 foot welded wire fence with no covering and a L shaped chicken wire skirt along the bottom. It's not anywhere near predator proof, but it's enough to keep out roving dogs, which are my primary concern. Most of the time, except when snow is on the ground, they free range all day, and my primary concerns then are the aforementioned dogs and hawks. My own dogs help keep other dogs away, and the chickens have tons of cover (bushes and trees and a canvas covered A frame) to hide from hawks. But if you have hungry racoons, foxes, coyotes, mink... it all just depends. I do know we have foxes, but they don't come into the area I live in (yet). Having a dog will help at least detur predators.

Concerning your dog, that can be really tricky. I have a border collie who was 2 when I got my chickens. I introduced her to the chickens right away and kept her tied up at first when the chickens would free range, and eventually started letting her off the chain with very VERY close supervision, because I know she is really well trained and no matter how tempted she is by something will listen to me (I've called her off of rabbits before, that is a pretty good indicator). Now she's totally fine, I can leave her outside with them unattended and my biggest concern is that she gets into their pen and eats their (not cheap organic) feed. If your dog isn't that obedient, I would say NEVER let him near birds, or work with him until he is and even then be super careful. I also have a puppy (well, he's 1.5 now) who I am having a harder time with. He isn't allowed out unattended when the chickens are out. He will still eye the birds when they're near him- plus if I'm not looking he likes to steal eggs

BUT if he is a well trained dog and you get to the point you can more or less trust him, or have a situation where the birds are inside a fence and he is outside of it, he can be a real benefit to keeping predators out.

Handling them and giving them frequent treats will really help you socialize your birds. Just wrap your head around the idea that at some point, for whatever reason, one will probably die. A predator will get it, it will get sick, whatever. At least I found it beneficial to come to terms with this before hand, even though it was hard. BUT I do think it's good for kids to be exposed to these phenomenons. My kids were in the room with me when we had our cat put to sleep. My then 5 year old helped me butcher our first broiler. This doesn't mean don't make them pets and get attached, though. There's a balance, and in our case (we raise birds for meat in addition to eggs and the many, many other purposes they serve around the farm!) it helps our kids to grow up knowing where their food comes from.

So wow, I think I answered everything I'm even remotely qualified to answer Good luck!

 

[TruBluCG]

About the only thing I would add is that ducks can handle cold weather. They have natural down jackets. But, that would be a personal preference. I bring our kids in at night most of the time, just so nothing will make a munchie out of them. However, my neighbor has some ducks that he has neglected and they have been out there for years. Nothing seems to bother them, but we really don't have many predators around. They have the run of the area, but they haven't ever tried to come into the coop/pen with my guys.

 

[TruBluCG]

also - with the coop and limited finances, you don't have to have anything big and spectacular and fancy! You can re-purpose things to be made into a duck house. My sister used an old dog house she found on craigslist. I also had a friend of mine (and other people on here) use pallets of all things to make a duck house, and they are generally free! You just supply the labor. We built a duck pen for under $100.

 

[PrayingMantis]

Thank you everyone for all the info! I have more questions about the type of feed for the ducklings. We purchased the Non-Medicated Starter by Manna-Pro from Southern States. Is this all they will need? I read that they need additional niacin, is this true? If so, I did purchase a supplement that goes in the water, Life-Lytes mega tabs. It is a multivitamin with 15,000mg/lb and one tablet is to be dissolved in a gallon of water. Do I use this? Also, having an issue with locating a coop. We thought we found one online made by CCOnly but read that they are flimsy. We dont want to build one since we dont really know how and want to keep the cost down, any suggestions? Also, we plan to keep them inside the chain linked fence, but do we enclose an area then place the house insode the enclosure? I just wondered if we put the house inside the fence and thats it or it needs an additional coop area for protection. Thanks !

------------------------------------ chain fence
______________ fenced in coop
________ duck house

OR ----------chain fence
______ duck house

 

[Amiga]

You might save yourself some expense and worry by deciding on a "coop" area in the garage. You say it's clean, not smelling of petroleum or other pungent materials. If the air quality is good, with decent ventilation, I would put a small playhouse or doghouse inside the garage, and make absolutely sure the garage is sound and predator-proof. No loose or rotting boards, or gaps in the walls or between wall and floor, or at tops of walls, etc. It will take time to do this, but less than to build a coop.

I designed a simple box shelter, 4'x8', and my neighbor built it in 18 hours (6 hours a day, three days). Some months later I realized a few of my runners were not winter hardy below 35F. Rather than force them to tough it out (no, mine did not huddle together to keep each other warm - they don't read the books), I moved them into the walkout basement, giving them a double puppy pen. That worked out so well, we decided to build a framework in the basement, attach plastic poultry fence as the walls, and now they are safe and sound and above freezing at night. I do a fifteen minute room service daily, with an extra hour once a week for big cleanup. Could have saved myself some money if I realized what I know now.

But, hey, we do have the outdoor shelter and it's fine for summer and early fall.

Welcome, glad you are here. I wanted to share that when I became a mad gardener (as in crazy-mad), I learned how to safely use a circular saw and electric drill. Already knew how to drive a nail. And while the neighbor built the duckhouse, I built the attached porch and day pen. And it felt really good by the end of the summer to see what I had done. The porch has a roof on it, and yes, I built that.

I have heard that with a farm, we get to learn how to do all kinds of things. Some people call my place a farm. It's just a bunch of gardens. But I found that I always need another structure of one kind or another that involves digging, pounding, sawing, drilling . . . . and I am not a big strong person. So this is a long way of saying, don't overextend yourselves, you are right to look for easier ways to accomplish your goals. And have some fun with building things yourselves, when that's the best thing for you to do.

 

[Going Quackers]

The idea of using the garage is a good one! If the walls are wooden you could almost do a doggy type door for them to access a fenced area. THE biggest problem i find is keeping things from eating your ducks, you have to know what predators are there. Plus frankly, you may have even more than you think because when you lack something of interest not all come around, if you get my drift.

I keep my chickens in a dog run, fully enclosed, that said the ducks they free range, i do have an area 1/3 of acre fenced around there mini barn but it will keep out dogs not much else... honestly, roaming dogs or even your own are probably the worst predator, my ducks have been raised around dogs which proves difficult if a roaming one comes onto the property... which is how i lost two last year.

Um, as for you own dog, tricky... mine have been raised around a zillion things, has this dog ever met anything else before? like rabbits, cats, birds etc.. despite my dogs general tolerance i am never 100% confident in there ability to not be stupid, the chicken are flighty and noisy so they don't come near them, the ducklings i have right now create way to much interest, the adult birds they are less problematic with, of coarse i had a rather unique situation where after i lost the birds last year i had to um, "borrow" my dog yard so they all went out together eventually, i had it separated but they were already used to the ducks flying in/out the odd time.. but this is not your typical set-up... still to this day if the gate is open and the dogs loose they think the yard is theirs and come in again to forage lol

Many a time i have dogs and ducks side by side... BUT

After that too long of a ramble my point is you have to play it out to see the prey drive of the dog and never, ever 100% trust any dog, they can be your worst enemy, even being your own.

 

[PrayingMantis]

Thanks for all the info! We now have our 4 ducklings and they are 23 days old. They are suppose to be all female but I suspect one of my welsh harlequins is a male. Can you identify? Appreciate any help I can! I believe his peep has change a bit from the others, he has always been bigger, his bill was pink but now light with a dark bean tip, dark feet. My female has the typical dark bill and her markings are considerably different and yellow feet. What do you think? I just want to know asap because we dont want bonding to occur on the duck end and limit the bonding on our childrens end. This is our first go around with any type of farm animal. The place we purchased from said she would trade us and give us a female if she ends up being a he!

 

[Amiga]

I cannot really tell from the photo's. I used the voice method, and knew pretty certainly within a month with my runners (all girls).

Glad things are moving along!

 

[PrayingMantis]

Yes, Daisy, who we think is a Donald does have some changes in his voice....he sounds more goose like. But based on bill color, am I correct, Welsh Harlequin females no matter what have dark bills correct? This is mainly why I suspect she is a he. I just cant find any info that mentions a female bill being light at 30 days old.