new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[U_Stormcrow]

The biggest difference lies in the style of feeding horses vs chickens. If you gave most any animal free choice big bins of various foods to choose from, a large portion of them would most likely eat themselves to obesity and death, just as many humans do. And we supposedly "know better" too.

Surprisingly, many chickens (Cx-types obviously excluded) seem to know (somewhat) better than that. Just as many of us who can afford to do so don't eat ourselves into obesity (but some do, just as with chickens).

The bigger leap comes in comparing a study with a number of different rations/ingredients available, including concentrated animal protein sources, and assuming pasture raised/free range is directly analagous. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't - depends on the pasture and the season.

Obviously, I'm not against free range/pasturing - I do it myself, and I continue efforts to improve my pasture - but I also provide a high quality nutritionally complete mix as part of my risk management. Those who want to assume their pasture is adequate are engaged in far more risky behaviors than I am comfortable with myself.

 

[Perris]

Due to predator issues we have to keep them in their coop/run 95% of the time. There are days they get let out but most days it’s only in the later afternoon. So to answer your question, yes but not free roaming.

We are going to make some changes to the run soon. It will be used as a compost system and there will also be a yard for them to get some “free time” in.

well, the less time they get to forage, and the less variety they encounter when they get to forage, the more responsibility you have to ensure they get access to all they need. I completely understand why this is scary for you (according to your previous post), and why most people choose a so-called balanced feed in the belief that that will meet all their birds' needs. Cereal grains on their own don't have all they need, but do have most of what they need, and if you add some peas you're a long way there. Both are more nutritious if fermented lightly. Access to grass, and whatever weeds grow in it there, is good for them, unless you spray chemicals on the grass.

Really it isn't rocket science, and all the fancy calculations on limiting amino acids are just to find the least possible amounts you can get away with, which might be what a commercial producer wants but isn't what most of us want. Make sure they get variety, and some protein in animal, insect or fish form, and let their instincts be your guide. There are lots of resources to help you. Spector's advice when contemplating whether something you're thinking of eating (or feeding) is a UPF or not is to look at the list of ingredients. The fewer the better, and ideally they'll be things you would find in a domestic kitchen rather than a chemistry laboratory.

 

[Geena]

Surprisingly, many chickens (Cx-types obviously excluded) seem to know (somewhat) better than that. Just as many of us who can afford to do so don't eat ourselves into obesity (but some do, just as with chickens).

The bigger leap comes in comparing a study with a number of different rations/ingredients available, including concentrated animal protein sources, and assuming pasture raised/free range is directly analagous. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't - depends on the pasture and the season.

Obviously, I'm not against free range/pasturing - I do it myself, and I continue efforts to improve my pasture - but I also provide a high quality nutritionally complete mix as part of my risk management. Those who want to assume their pasture is adequate are engaged in far more risky behaviors than I am comfortable with myself.

Unfortunately most humans do just that, 2 out of 3 Americans are now considered to be overweight to obese.
Most grazing/browsing animals would very quickly kill themselves given unlimited access to grains and most pet cats and dogs will overeat to obesity given the opportunity.
It's just the nature of the beast unfortunately, we and they are not designed to deal with unlimited amounts of certain foods like we have today. It takes a lot of thought and will power to not overeat/eat badly when it's so readily available.
Chickens may differ in that respect, it's hard for me to tell since all of my chickens are "fat".

 

[Isadora]

Anecdotal and just one instance, but when I was a teenager my cousin's cow killed herself when she broke into their grain shed and gorged on the feed.

 

[Perris]

Anecdotal and just one instance, but when I was a teenager my cousin's cow killed herself when she broke into their grain shed and gorged on the feed.

Was there a necropsy to establish cause of death? and what about all the grazing animals that, when they've had enough, stop eating?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

As obesity is defined, most American adults ARE overweight. Harvard Study, etc. Results are somewhat more variable for the rest of the world. AAHA and AKC both recognize the high rates of obesity in our pets (again, an American-centric view).

Chicken condition scoring exists in part to provide a scale for measuring subjective obesity (or paucity) in Chickens. I'd have to look to find good estimates of prevalence (assuming they exist).

Cows? Haven't a clue. Except Wagyu. obese.

 

[Geena]

Was there a necropsy to establish cause of death? and what about all the grazing animals that, when they've had enough, stop eating?

Obviously you know nothing about cows, horses, goats, donkeys etc.

 

[Isadora]

Was there a necropsy to establish cause of death?

Lol, of course not. My cousins are country folk and wouldn't spend money on a necropsy when they literally found the animal in the grain shed with all the feed bags busted everywhere.

and what about all the grazing animals that, when they've had enough, stop eating?

Like I said, my story is anecdotal and just one instance. I'm not trying to answer for everyone but showing you that has happened to a grazing animal.

 

[Perris]

As obesity is defined, most American adults ARE overweight. Harvard Study, etc. Results are somewhat more variable for the rest of the world. AAHA and AKC both recognize the high rates of obesity in our pets (again, an American-centric view).

Chicken condition scoring exists in part to provide a scale for measuring subjective obesity (or paucity) in Chickens. I'd have to look to find good estimates of prevalence (assuming they exist).

Cows? Haven't a clue. Except Wagyu. obese.

my comment was directed to the nonsense about grazing animals, not about obese Americans, with which I have no dispute or interest.

 

[Perris]

Since the thread is at risk of derailing by distraction tactics, I shall not be responding to any more irrelevant or unsupported assertions of dogma.