new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[Stravager]

"The simplest way of classifying UPFs is that they are made up of complex mixtures of chemicals and food extracts which don't resemble the original parts of whole foods" Spector op.cit. p. 34.
"UPF labels usually list over 10 [additives]...UPFs are designed to be highly profitable (with low cost ingredients and long shelf lives), convenient (ready to consume), hyper-palatable (addictive) products" p.35.
Sounds to me like a pretty good fit with pelleted feed.

Very good points.
It's usually recommended to feed most commercial chicken feed within 3 months of manufacturing. I wouldn't call that a long shelf life. But I will agree that there are a lot of companies that will not disclose all the ingredients that go into their feed and there's a lot of stuff that goes into food that we don't even realize usually.
At the same time, every chicken is different. I've seen a lot of them that will refuse pellets, ignore corn, oats, barley, wheat, sunflower seeds, mealworms, and the list goes on. I've seen them try and go for green potato peels and ignore fresh greens. Not every chicken is smart and not every chicken will want to select a balanced diet. On top of that, everyone's situation is different. There are a lot of people who cannot create/grow their own feed or store their own feed ingredients, and because of the lack of detailed research into chicken nutrition creating your own diet can be very tricky for a beginner. Everyone is trying to do the best they can for their chickens, and sometimes the best people can do is not what we agree with.
We should all be eating less processed food and more raw stuff and whole grains, but chickens aren't vegetarian, and I don't usually see people tossing mice in to feed their birds either.

 

[Perris]

There are a lot of people who cannot create/grow their own feed or store their own feed ingredients, and because of the lack of detailed research into chicken nutrition creating your own diet can be very tricky for a beginner.

indeed; that's partly why I wrote this article recently
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...eat-tears-a-calculator-or-deep-pockets.78655/
you may find it interesting.

 

[Pollo Blanco]

Anecdotal and just one instance, but when I was a teenager my cousin's cow killed herself when she broke into their grain shed and gorged on the feed.

Probably because cows are supposed to eat grass and other pasture plants, not grain.

 

[Pollo Blanco]

I remember reading about orange juice. Why is it that no two oranges seem to taste exactly the same ... Yet, day after day, month after month, any given brand of orange juice tastes exactly the same and they only have 100% orange juice in them?

Answer (paraphrased) extracted elements of orange juice can be re-introduced back into orange juice in various amounts to ensure that they final product has the desired taste.

The point ... even something with just 1 ingredient can be more processed than is apparent at face value.

It's not even that wholesome!
The article is available on Food Renegade

 

[Perris]

more relevant research on the deleterious effects of UPFs (specifically, emulsifiers) on the microbiome was featured in the news today
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...truth-about-emulsifiers-gut-health-microbiome

 

[EddieSalita]

indeed; that's partly why I wrote this article recently
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...eat-tears-a-calculator-or-deep-pockets.78655/
you may find it interesting.

I found it extremely interesting. I am very grateful you wrote it.
I have a question... I can get mixed peas. But they are not as accessible or affordable as lupins. Which for me are very cheap relative to their protien content. $30aud per 20kg (30%+ protien, around 14g/kg of Lysine and 2g/kg of Methionine).
Question is do you think it would be ok to substitute lupins for peas in an attempt to approximate your recipe? My research suggests yes..... but i wondered if you had come across much in your clearly more extensive research. Yes I would look to ferment the resulting lupin/wheat/sunflower/cut maize prior to feeding.
My girls have acess to a wide variety of pasture, forage and bugs all year round (subtropics).

I'd love to get off the commercial soy based pellet. But my primary interest is the health of my birds. They are a mix of heritage and high production hybrids.

Lupins:
https://mtbequine.com/blogs/f/lupins---the-benefits-and-benefits-for-your-horse#:~:text=Moderate levels of essential amino,t use dehulled seeds

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5223248/

 

[Perris]

I found it extremely interesting. I am very grateful you wrote it.
I have a question... I can get mixed peas. But they are not as accessible or affordable as lupins. Which for me are very cheap relative to their protien content. $30aud per 20kg (30%+ protien, around 14g/kg of Lysine and 2g/kg of Methionine).
Question is do you think it would be ok to substitute lupins for peas in an attempt to approximate your recipe? My research suggests yes..... but i wondered if you had come across much in your clearly more extensive research. Yes I would look to ferment the resulting lupin/wheat/sunflower/cut maize prior to feeding.
My girls have acess to a wide variety of pasture, forage and bugs all year round (subtropics).

I'd love to get off the commercial soy based pellet. But my primary interest is the health of my birds. They are a mix of heritage and high production hybrids.

Lupins:
https://mtbequine.com/blogs/f/lupins---the-benefits-and-benefits-for-your-horse#:~:text=Moderate levels of essential amino,t use dehulled seeds

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5223248/

I haven't been able to find a supplier of lupins here so I gave up on them as the pulse component fairly early on. But they were on my initial list of possibilities after early research (though I don't remember much about that now, as it turned into a dead end here), and you've clearly been doing yours well, so I'd trust your instincts and calculations and try some. Perhaps you can get a sample to do a small batch to see how it goes down with your flock before shelling out for a 20kg sack?

 

[EddieSalita]

I have done a sampling and do have a big bag already. I use them as treats currently. Apologies I didn't make that clear.
I was more wondering about taking a more staple approach with them much as you have done with your own recipe.
The hens really love the lupins, and they are very cheap and accessible in Australia. I can get them in 3 forms; whole, cracked and micronised (rolled/flattened). I'm currently using the micronised form. I liked this form as it enables them to sort the husk from the flesh if they wish. I will try cracked next and ultimately whole.
What I might do is leave them their feeder with the chick crumble (mixed flock of young pullets and laying hens), shell grit, and give them a morning ration of fermented home recipie. 30% lupins, 70% wheat/corn/sunflower.... should yield approx 15% protien minimum. Although nutrient balance is my primary goal. The reasons why are explained below. But it's a good starting point, and at a cost comparable to a budget pellet.
I guess like many I lack the confidence to dive in, using the rationalisation of wellbeing, and lack of advancedknowledge. Which is generally a good thing. But sometimes it can inhibit discovering/trying new things. You've given me the confidence to dive in and give it a go rather than just dabbling with treats. Many thanks.

I might also add just for curiosity. Where I live there is a feral pest called the cane toad. A poisonous toad. I also have a dam on my property. During the warmer months there are endless numbers of these things from fingernail size right through to tennis ball size. The chooks appear immune to their toxin and readily eat them. Research verifies this. So they have free access to near infinite protien for 9 months of the year.

 

[Pollo Blanco]

more relevant research on the deleterious effects of UPFs (specifically, emulsifiers) on the microbiome was featured in the news today
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...truth-about-emulsifiers-gut-health-microbiome

Yep!
Avoid synthetic gums!

 

[Chixchik]

As obesity is defined, most American adults ARE overweight. Harvard Study, etc. Results are somewhat more variable for the rest of the world. AAHA and AKC both recognize the high rates of obesity in our pets (again, an American-centric view).

Chicken condition scoring exists in part to provide a scale for measuring subjective obesity (or paucity) in Chickens. I'd have to look to find good estimates of prevalence (assuming they exist).

Cows? Haven't a clue. Except Wagyu. obese.

this is interesting, lately I’ve been wondering about this in pets etc… specifically wondering about WHEN all the processed feed for our domesticated pets became the norm. I know that my dogs’ vet mentioned that all dog breeds’ life expectancy is going down over the decades. For example, golden retrievers average life expectancy a few decades ago ( maybe five decades?) was 16 years and it’s gradually gone down to ten. Now I know about over breeding etc but c’mon… has anyone ever thought about the commercial processed foods possibly contributing to this?

so what started my wondering is that I came across an older dog training book written in the mid sixties. I actually had to check the date published because I was reading it in the barnes and noble book store aisle and as I was skimming the book I noticed how antiquated it was. It was actually entertaining to skim, but that’s not my point. What caught my attention was the chapter on what and how to feed your dog. The author was explaining what to feed and how much to feed and I was confused and had to keep re-reading to see what I was missing until I realized that HOME COOKING being fed to dogs must have been the NORM back then ( this was written in the mid sixties). The author even mentioned that commercial dog food was “fairly new and expensive” and that most average households might not be able to afford commercial dog food! I actually laughed out loud in the book aisle because of the irony of how things had changed so drastically! Anyway… it got me wondering if the longer life expectancy of dogs back then might be tied in with what we are regularly feeding them. I also started wondering if commercial foods might be contributing to all the rise in the obesity and diseases in our pets. That got me thinking about my chickens as well,,, and I wondered how the pioneers did it all WITHOUT commercial food, electricity, etc etc etc… so nonetheless, I am very interested in this thread! Thoughts?