new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[Shadrach]

Further to the last, proper experimental set-ups to test poultry's ability to choose a balanced diet always starts with sterile chicks, raised artificially, and usually given commercial feed for the first N days before the experiment starts. Those selected for the test group then have to discover it all themselves, as chicks (test subjects are usually killed on or before they are a couple of months old).

Real chicks raised by a broody have an adult to teach them what's good eating and what's not. And free ranging birds can eat anything they find. But that's too hard for the human experimenters to cope with - all those variables! non-sterile birds! the great outdoors! could eat anything!!! - so they stick with walking nuggets and a controlled environment. It's better than nothing, but it's not normal. Just because something can be measured, it does not mean it is correct, or better than something that can't be measured.

I don't bother with the weeds of the calculations because I don't think less than one percent, or less than one half of one percent (even in bold type), matters one whit with free ranging birds.

This has been an interesting problem with most behavioural experiments. Eventually one has to match what was observed in the experiment and what happens in the chickens environment. This takes time, lots of time and lots of obsevation.

 

[Geena]

I don't even know if you can buy it here.
I have never seen it anyway
Thus why I was wondering if you could swap it out for something else.

Some pond fish foods are made from mostly fish meal. I have read that fish meal can make your eggs taste fishy, not sure if that's true or not.

 

[Perris]

I don't even know if you can buy it here.
I have never seen it anyway
Thus why I was wondering if you could swap it out for something else.

real fish. Sardines are cheap and nutritious.

 

[3KillerBs]

Sardines are cheap

The cheapest sardines on Walmart.com are US $1.07 for 3.75oz can, 28.5 cents per ounce, which is very nearly US $5 per pound.

They might be cheap in your area, but to me that's more expensive that either chicken or pork and the same as ground beef on sale.

As opposed to the 22% gamebird feed I'm buying for just over US $20 for a 50# bag.

 

[ManueB]

It won't help you much since I'm in France but I have used fish meal when my hens were molting. It was sold as a molting supplement and mentioned not to use more than 10%. It's made in France (though that only means milled in France) and here was the analysis:

Granulométrie 40µm à 1mm
Calcium:18.6%
Phosphore:9.8%
Protéines:40%
Lysine:1.46%
Methionine:0.81%

It did not give the egg a fish taste but the chickens tended to leave it out, like all fine milled powder.
The cats loved it.

 

[Perris]

The cheapest sardines on Walmart.com are US $1.07 for 3.75oz can, 28.5 cents per ounce, which is very nearly US $5 per pound.

They might be cheap in your area, but to me that's more expensive that either chicken or pork and the same as ground beef on sale.

As opposed to the 22% gamebird feed I'm buying for just over US $20 for a 50# bag.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Sardines are the protein bit of the concentrated feed, not the cheap grain bit, and a little goes a long way. They also supply the (good) omega 3 oils in quantity, unlike plant oils which are dominated by omega 6.

 

[Perris]

Finding a rooster that will breed consistently is more difficult than finding a hen that will lay.

Interestingly, of the very fertile clutch last year, half the chicks were sired by one roo and the other half by another roo. The hen whose eggs I set then (and she was 4 years old btw) was being mated by at least 2 roos.

 

[Perris]

UK has excellent "white" fish meal. It has lower fat and salt. That's why they can produce the best salmon feeds. In the US you will usually get lower qulity menhadden meal unless you go to a lot of extra effort and expense. With fish meal, good storage and quick turn-around is critical because the fats (oils) will become rncid

given that we are in the UK and you are in the US, it's interesting that you think you know better what's available here. Grass greener on the other side I guess.

 

[Perris]

I should have said Europe instead of UK. I think the best stuff comes from further north nearer the gadoid resources. But, I would have thought it came from there instead Gulf of Mexico or Chile.

Spector has interesting things to say on fish and fishmeal too. I wrote this elsewhere

Some other excerpts from Spector: Fake fish is big business. A global report of 55 countries and 25,000 samples suggested the problem affected 1 in 5 fish sold...(examples from) Italy…Belgium…Germany…UK…in a Los Angeles survey using DNA testing between 2013 and 2015, half of raw fish in sushi was mislabelled…US survey reported over 70% of sushi tuna was fake.

The problem is worse with fishmeal, since the contents are unrecognizable by design.

Scottish salmon farms are wrecking their environments, largely because of the fishmeal and antibiotics poured into them on a massive scale.

 

[BDutch]

According to Tim Spector, Food for Life: the new science of eating well, Jonathan Cape 2022: xiv
Myths that have benefited the food industry and which we should now dispel include: all calories are equal, low-calorie foods are good, high-fat foods are bad, artificial sweeteners are healthy, high levels of processing are harmless, and food and vitamin supplements are as good as real food.

Spector is Professor of Genetic Epidemiology at King's College London, and honorary consultant physician at Guy's and St Thomas' hospitals. These are all world class institutions. He is writing about human diet and nutrition, but much of it applies to chicken diet and nutrition too.

For example, that UPFs (ultra processed foods) made up of many chemicals make us feel hungrier, over-consume, and increase risks of disease and earlier death. This applies to chicken feed pellets, which are specifically designed to achieve the first two, and don't care about the last two because the chickens that they are designed for are not intended or expected to live very long.

I do not expect those BYCers who trot out their tired dogmas on food, feeds, and fats, at any and every opportunity, to stop doing it, but their views are now being labelled as myths by people who really know what they're talking about, and have extensive evidence to prove it.

And the chicken feed industry is catching up with the human feed industry on these matters, so attempting to dismiss it as irrelevant won't wash either.

I love it that you bring this topic up for a larger group of readers.

The animal feed industry is NOT okay. In my country where they export a lot of animal flesh and animal products the food industry for animal feed (meat chickens, layers, ducks, pigs, cows, sheep, goats, etc. ) make huge amounts of money in trading and processing feed.
The owners are billionaires and belong to the richest of our country.
They buy GMO soy and corn from Brazil and contribute to what is happening with the rainforest and the Amazone area.
They created not only a problem with loads of dung, too much nitrogens and ongoing problems with the bird flu , but they also got into influencing politic.
They paid farmers to demonstrate against the intentions of the government to decrease the amount of cattle.
Our (and European) governments wants that many farmers decrease the amount of nitrogen by changing the way they work. From factory farming to circular or organic farming. With more space for animals and not so much import of feed.
The feed industry made people believe that the farmers should be supported in doing what they are good in. Making cheap meat, eggs and milk in overcrowded stables and not change a bit to the way they work. In the meantime the pollution goes on.
And the animal food industry had a great impact on the votes in the last election we had. A new political party for farmers (farmer-civilian movement) became the largest in all departments in the Netherlands.

So, if you ask me if I trust the animal feed to be the best for my chickens? I’d say NO!