new to quail and having some hatch and chick issues

[Missinasworld]

Long story short I have 2 issues. I am new to quail and have cortunix. I need advise and help to find out were I am going wrong here. I do not want to keep killing chicks before they get out of the egg!
Problem #1: Hatch rates in my incubator are low and chicks are dyeing in their shells fully formed. It is a little giant still air incubator with an aftermarket fan making it a forced air incubator. temp is set to 99F and fluctuates between 99 and 100.4F. I have a little giant egg turner with quail rails. I do have a old school thermometer inside the incubator to do manual temp checks at least a few times a day.
The first time hatching I got 36 eggs from a local breeder and I did not have the fan set up in the incubator because I didn't think I needed it. out of 36 eggs to begin incubating, 3 had cracks in them, 30 were fertile and developed. I got 11 live hatched chickens and the rest were dead in the shell and they took a period of 4 days to hatch. I began incubation and counted that at day 1 and locked them down on day 14. humidity was about 50% until day 14 and then it increased to 70. once the eggs began hatching the humidity spiked on its own to 80%. I left the chicks in with the eggs until they were 24hrs old and then removed them and eggs were still hatching. the first chicks out trampled several of the chicks so I only got 8 live babies who are now 2months old. several chicks died after getting their beaks out of the shell but then never progressed more than that.
The second time I added the fan to the incubator and ordered 24eggs from a supplier in Tx. With the fan in the incubator 21 were fertile, 1 was cracked. out of the 21 eggs that were fertile, 14 developed full term with only 9 live chicks to hatch and they all hatched on the same day within an hour of each other except for 1. The humidity I should note was 46% up until I locked down the eggs at day 14-I started incubation on day 0 and the chicks hatched on day 16. On day 14 when I locked down the eggs I added water and the humidity went to about 68-71%. I did remove the older chicks a few hours after hatching because they were rolling around the other eggs like crazy.
I opened each egg that did not hatch and found several chicks had pierced into the air pocket and then died. A few chicks appeared to have been dead for several days and some were even rotting. The 1 chick that hatched out several hours after the first has leg issues and cannot stand. which leads me to problem #2.

Problem #2.
The last quail chick to hatch out of this last batch has some messed up legs and foot. It appears to have a clubbed foot. after researching last night I found the shot glass method and used vet wrap to secure the legs. This little bird is so tiny I had to use rolled up fabric to prop it up properly. When it first hatched it was weak and kept flopping about but it could stand, just 1 foot turns in. So I went to work and came home after a 12 shift to find it belly up and not able to get up any more. after keeping it in the upright position with its legs secured last night, it can stay upright but if it walks to far, it flops back over. Its only 2 days old. Is there any hope for it? Or should I just give up and cull it? UG its just so tiny! I took this video of it this morning.

I tried to give as detailed information as I could but please if more information would be of help let me know and if i know it I will share it. Thank you in advance to all and any who offer help

 

[Ravenlover]

Long story short I have 2 issues. I am new to quail and have cortunix. I need advise and help to find out were I am going wrong here. I do not want to keep killing chicks before they get out of the egg!
Problem #1: Hatch rates in my incubator are low and chicks are dyeing in their shells fully formed. It is a little giant still air incubator with an aftermarket fan making it a forced air incubator. temp is set to 99F and fluctuates between 99 and 100.4F. I have a little giant egg turner with quail rails. I do have a old school thermometer inside the incubator to do manual temp checks at least a few times a day.
The first time hatching I got 36 eggs from a local breeder and I did not have the fan set up in the incubator because I didn't think I needed it. out of 36 eggs to begin incubating, 3 had cracks in them, 30 were fertile and developed. I got 11 live hatched chickens and the rest were dead in the shell and they took a period of 4 days to hatch. I began incubation and counted that at day 1 and locked them down on day 14. humidity was about 50% until day 14 and then it increased to 70. once the eggs began hatching the humidity spiked on its own to 80%. I left the chicks in with the eggs until they were 24hrs old and then removed them and eggs were still hatching. the first chicks out trampled several of the chicks so I only got 8 live babies who are now 2months old. several chicks died after getting their beaks out of the shell but then never progressed more than that.
The second time I added the fan to the incubator and ordered 24eggs from a supplier in Tx. With the fan in the incubator 21 were fertile, 1 was cracked. out of the 21 eggs that were fertile, 14 developed full term with only 9 live chicks to hatch and they all hatched on the same day within an hour of each other except for 1. The humidity I should note was 46% up until I locked down the eggs at day 14-I started incubation on day 0 and the chicks hatched on day 16. On day 14 when I locked down the eggs I added water and the humidity went to about 68-71%. I did remove the older chicks a few hours after hatching because they were rolling around the other eggs like crazy.
I opened each egg that did not hatch and found several chicks had pierced into the air pocket and then died. A few chicks appeared to have been dead for several days and some were even rotting. The 1 chick that hatched out several hours after the first has leg issues and cannot stand. which leads me to problem #2.

Problem #2.
The last quail chick to hatch out of this last batch has some messed up legs and foot. It appears to have a clubbed foot. after researching last night I found the shot glass method and used vet wrap to secure the legs. This little bird is so tiny I had to use rolled up fabric to prop it up properly. When it first hatched it was weak and kept flopping about but it could stand, just 1 foot turns in. So I went to work and came home after a 12 shift to find it belly up and not able to get up any more. after keeping it in the upright position with its legs secured last night, it can stay upright but if it walks to far, it flops back over. Its only 2 days old. Is there any hope for it? Or should I just give up and cull it? UG its just so tiny! I took this video of it this morning.

I tried to give as detailed information as I could but please if more information would be of help let me know and if i know it I will share it. Thank you in advance to all and any who offer help

@Nabiki @Kiki @007Sean hmm who else @FloorCandy good luck maybe they can help o.o my equipment isn't that lvl yet I'm working with this lmfao

 

[FloorCandy]

Does the hock /knee work properly? Does the chick show pain if you touch and manipulate the leg and joints?

The left foot has curled toes. What most people do is use tape (I use painters tape or masking tape because it comes off easily without breaking the skin), and you flatten the foot and separate the toes onto the sticky side of the tape, then fold over the top so the tape sticks together with the toes in the middle. This should make a duckbill shaped boot. Then I put them in something to keep them upright, I usually use a piece of toilet paper or paper towel tube, so the curve helps keep the feet together.

From the video I can’t see if there are issues with the hock, or it just can’t balance because of the toes. If the hock is injured or dislocated it probably won’t improve much.

As far as incubation. I put shelf liner under the eggs in the incubator, it will help the chicks develop proper feet once they hatch, and it also makes the eggs fly around less when they are bumped by chicks. The chicks throwing around the eggs can get the chicks inside disoriented and malpositioned and they can’t find their pip to break out. I cut thin strips of shelf liner and I line the eggs up at lockdown in channels of shelf liner rows. The eggs only roll side to side when bumped, so this helps prevent that and let them stay as still as possible.

Here’s a pic, the tips are all facing away from me, the base of the eggs are facing toward me to make it easiest to look for pips.

You should also calibrate and salt test your thermometers, I don’t have the links handy, but you can search this site and get great instructions. Often the incubators included temp/hygrometer are not well calibrated and even though they say one temp, they might be a few degrees off.

 

[Nabiki]

It sounds like your humidity is too high, for one. In my experience, I have much better hatch rates and fewer leg issues when I keep humidity around 30% during incubation and let it get up to 50-60% during hatch.

Personally, I keep at least two calibrated thermometers inside the incubator. There are usually warm and cool spots in your incubator, and you want to be aware of where they are. Ideal temperature is 99.5. If it averages lower, your hatches will be late, if it averages higher they will be early. Either way, you may have more hatch defects.

Here is a sheet I give to new hatchers when I sell them fertile eggs.

Incubation Tips​

Quail incubation is 17 days.

Incubator choice:

The best incubators have forced air circulation and an automatic egg turner, but other than that, it depends on how many you want to hatch. Don't trust the thermometer or hygrometer on your incubator! Have at least one calibrated thermometer and hygrometer inside. I use three thermometers because every incubator has warm and cold spots.

Incubation:

Temperature should be 99.5-100 degrees, humidity about 30%. Eggs need to be turned every 3-6 hours, which is why you should have an egg turner in your incubator. On day 14, the eggs should go into lockdown, which is where you take the egg turner out and prepare for the eggs to hatch. You should have some sort of grippy flooring such as shelf liner or rough paper towels to help the chicks learn to walk.

Hatching:

When the eggs begin to hatch, the humidity should go up to around 45-55%. Try to keep it there or a little higher. Don't let it get too high, or the chicks might drown. Once they are dry move your chicks to a brooder.

Brooding:

Chicks will need to be kept in a brooder until about 3 weeks of age. There should be a warm side and a cool side. Start the temperature at 95-100 degrees on the warm side and start lowering the temperature a couple degrees each day. If they huddle together, they are cold and the temperature needs to be raised. If they are laying stretched out or panting, they are hot and the temperature needs to be lowered.

Feel free to contact me with any question.

https://merriquail.com

https://facebook.com/QuailinPetaluma

 

[Missinasworld]

Does the hock /knee work properly? Does the chick show pain if you touch and manipulate the leg and joints?

The left foot has curled toes. What most people do is use tape (I use painters tape or masking tape because it comes off easily without breaking the skin), and you flatten the foot and separate the toes onto the sticky side of the tape, then fold over the top so the tape sticks together with the toes in the middle. This should make a duckbill shaped boot. Then I put them in something to keep them upright, I usually use a piece of toilet paper or paper towel tube, so the curve helps keep the feet together.

From the video I can’t see if there are issues with the hock, or it just can’t balance because of the toes. If the hock is injured or dislocated it probably won’t improve much.

As far as incubation. I put shelf liner under the eggs in the incubator, it will help the chicks develop proper feet once they hatch, and it also makes the eggs fly around less when they are bumped by chicks. The chicks throwing around the eggs can get the chicks inside disoriented and malpositioned and they can’t find their pip to break out. I cut thin strips of shelf liner and I line the eggs up at lockdown in channels of shelf liner rows. The eggs only roll side to side when bumped, so this helps prevent that and let them stay as still as possible.
View attachment 2382865

Here’s a pic, the tips are all facing away from me, the base of the eggs are facing toward me to make it easiest to look for pips.

You should also calibrate and salt test your thermometers, I don’t have the links handy, but you can search this site and get great instructions. Often the incubators included temp/hygrometer are not well calibrated and even though they say one temp, they might be a few degrees off.

I dont think that the chick is in pain. I taped up the toes on the one foot and am tring the toilet paper roll idea. How long should I leave them like that? Geesh I feel bad for the little thing.
I love your idea for the shelf liners! Thank you for the photo it was a huge help

 

[FloorCandy]

I dont think that the chick is in pain. I taped up the toes on the one foot and am tring the toilet paper roll idea. How long should I leave them like that? Geesh I feel bad for the little thing.
I love your idea for the shelf liners! Thank you for the photo it was a huge help

I would leave it for 2-3 hours and offer it some food and water, see if it stands with the shoe on. If it isn’t standing, I would put it back in the tube for 2-3 hours again and repeat the cycle. Tonight, if it can stand and walk with the shoe, you can leave it on until tomorrow. If it can’t stand with it, try taking it off and see if the toes are better oriented. Once the shoe is off, I recommend having it on shelf liner for a day before you put it on bedding.

If the toes are not better tonight and it cannot stand with the shoe on, it’s a tough choice. You will have to get up regularly through the night to make sure it eats and drinks if you put a shoe on all night. If you don’t keep it on and it reverts to the old behavior, the condition will revert back to before you started treatment, and the older it gets, the less likely it is to respond to treatment.

 

[FloorCandy]

If you get the toes straight, the best physical therapy I’ve found is standing up tall and screaming for his friends, so even if he’s lonely, I would let him do that alone until he’s standing strong.

 

[Ravenlover]

So glad i pinged floor candy lmao XD i figured u had a lot of exp by now since ur on ur 3rd-4th gen of celadons lol

 

[007Sean]

I agree with @Nabiki , the humidity is too high. High humidity at hatching, 70% or more, acts like a lubricant. Everytime the chick tries to rotate, it slips back to it's original position, thus, the chick becomes 'worn out' and become too weak to hatch.

I incubate my quail and pheasant eggs at 43 to 45% RH, then for the last 3 days, increase the humidity to 55% to 60%. At 70% they become what is known as a 'stuck chick', as describe in the above paragraph.

 

[Missinasworld]

I agree with @Nabiki , the humidity is too high. High humidity at hatching, 70% or more, acts like a lubricant. Everytime the chick tries to rotate, it slips back to it's original position, thus, the chick becomes 'worn out' and become too weak to hatch.

I incubate my quail and pheasant eggs at 43 to 45% RH, then for the last 3 days, increase the humidity to 55% to 60%. At 70% they become what is known as a 'stuck chick', as describe in the above paragraph.

oh geesh and here I thought i was doing the right thing by increasing it..because that is what i read online. wish I had asked this after the first hatch when i had a bunch die in the shell! well i have 8 older birds that should start laying eggs soon so I will do better next time! as to the 9 little ones i have form this weeks hatch..it will be a few months but I think their future offspring will stand a better chance with your advise.

If you get the toes straight, the best physical therapy I’ve found is standing up tall and screaming for his friends, so even if he’s lonely, I would let him do that alone until he’s standing strong.

you know what, it has been so unsteady it has never been with his buddies..i have had it separated since it hatched since it hatched several hours after the others and needed more time to dry out..then it was so unsteady i kept it separated in a Tupperware!

I am worried that the treatment for this chicks little foot and leg might end up being to stressful for it. I hope it makes it..but we will see how tomorrow goes!
Thank you everyone for your help. I will keep you all posted!