new update: been told e coli, cocci... still losing chicks

[threehorses]

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Well darnit. Yeah it helps to call ahead. Some places require the chicken to be dead, apparently these guys require alive (and I can understand why). So who knows.

Oh and by the way, cocci doesn't require bloody droppings, and bloody droppings don't necessarily mean coccidiosis.

Worms, bacterial infections, any irritation to the digestive tract or (more often) the cecum can cause blood in the droppings. Sometimes it doesn't even have to be an illness but a fissure in the cloacal tissue can bleed and get mixed in with droppings.

But cocci can simply be diarrhea or you might not even notice the diarrhea and still lose babies. It's a misconception that I keep trying to clear up as bloody droppings in coccidiosis only means it's very severe; several species don't have that symptom at all unless very serious.

 

[beepbeepinajeep]

What kind of virus would it be? It didn't start until we got the chicks form the hatchery. Or could it have been wild birds or in the soil?

 

[beepbeepinajeep]

We had spoken to someone different the last time we talked with someone (in a different county b/c our guy was on vacation) and she said to send in a fresh dead bird for necropsy... our guy here said that we could send it in but that it would be a waste of money unless the bird was alive. His suggestion was to let it run its course and treat secondary infection with sulmet. Will I be able to sell chicks next year?


Quote:
Well darnit. Yeah it helps to call ahead. Some places require the chicken to be dead, apparently these guys require alive (and I can understand why). So who knows.

Oh and by the way, cocci doesn't require bloody droppings, and bloody droppings don't necessarily mean coccidiosis.

Worms, bacterial infections, any irritation to the digestive tract or (more often) the cecum can cause blood in the droppings. Sometimes it doesn't even have to be an illness but a fissure in the cloacal tissue can bleed and get mixed in with droppings.

But cocci can simply be diarrhea or you might not even notice the diarrhea and still lose babies. It's a misconception that I keep trying to clear up as bloody droppings in coccidiosis only means it's very severe; several species don't have that symptom at all unless very serious.

 

[crtrlovr]

I've been facing the same thing, but it's not chicks, it's bantams around 3-4 1/2 mos. of age mostly, and a splash Silkie roo approx. 1 yr. and a bantam frizzle cochin approx. 6 mos. old. Back in the spring I lost the cochin first, then 2 bbred pullets, then the silkie. (I tried intensive treatment with him b/c the others got sick so fast I didn't know what had happened until they were at the point of death. He got sick more slowly and I saw him stumbling one day. I brought him in, gave him Tylan injections daily, yogurt, ACV in the water, high protein feed, etc. He improved marginally after a few days, but then succumbed about 2 weeks later.) With the others, there were no respiratory signs, no bloody stool or visible sign of worms, just sudden weakness, stumbling, then profound weakness and both legs stuck straight out in front, (and without getting any more graphic here, because it's heartbreaking) and death that either comes quickly (overnight) or lingers for 4-5 days. I just lost 3 morebeautiful OEGB bantam BBreds (they were all sick; I had to have them euthanized). They were sent to the Breathitt Co. Ag. lab for necropsies. I don't have the full results yet back, but they did say they found more than one strain of coccidiosis. That was Monday afternoon. Last night I found the prettiest of my 6 Ameracauna pullets dead.

I've been treating with the Sulmet for 3 days now; should I stop with it and try to find Corid?

 

[beepbeepinajeep]

DH found the corrid at our Farmer's co-op, but didn't buy it today... he bought Vet Rx instead

Would you suggest using the Vet Rx, just doing sulmet, or doing ACV/good bacteria at this point? Since we did have that gasping I wonder if it was cocci or respiratory. Could it have been gasping b/c it was dying or was it a respiratory disease?

I am so sorry about your birds! I am glad that you are getting some answers! I am afraid that if we have another sick bird it won't make the two hour trip to Raleigh to be euthanized and necropsied.

 

[threehorses]

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If you can get Corid, stop Sulmet the day you get Corid and use that instead IF you think it's not at all respiratory.
If you can't get Corid (and don't think it's at all respiratory), at least continue the treatment for the full course because it's an antibiotic as well as a coccidiocide. Also, continue the yogurt daily through treatment and through symptoms - and every other day thereafter. Then perhaps start a round of Corid once you get it.

On the findings, they found cocci - or they found that cocci were a likely cause of illness - the actual coccidiosis?

As important - if not equally important to treating for coccidiosis - the handling the environmental factors involved. With coccidiosis, you must clean the area well and make sure that everything is very dry. If you have the birds on dirt, cover the dirt with play-sand like sand instead. Or shavings. It's quite hard to disinfect dirt, but easier to dry conditions to help reduce chance of blooms of cocci. Also, as I mentioned above, give probiotics to help strengthen the good bacteria of the gut - particularly because you've now given an anti-bacterial antibiotic which will kill good bacteria along with bad. The good bacteria are particularly important to preventing secondary opportunistic infections of the digestive tract.

Until you receive the results, that's what I'd focus on. I'm very very sorry for your losses.

 

[threehorses]

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I would at least use the VetRx for the respiratory symptoms that you saw. You can use VetRx in conjunction with Sulmet. You can use Sulmet if you feel it might be one of the respiratory illnesses covered (Coryza, cholera). It will also treat 8/9 species of the cocci. But if you use for respiratory, you must use for 7 days.

Alternately it could have been gasping because of dying. But again - these symptoms are so vague and tied into really a lot of diseases it's very hard to tell them apart without veterinary lab equipment to aid us.

 

[threehorses]

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You can, but we can't guarantee that they won't be carriers of something unless you get them tested for vertically transmitted diseases (MG).

 

[beepbeepinajeep]

So I need to find someone who can test our flock when they all appear healthy then. If our local vet that does most farm work can't, where do I find someone who can... and is this likely to be pretty costly?

 

[threehorses]

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Honestly, I'd contact NPIP and ask them about it. If you sell, you should at least get your birds NPIP tested. It's the only responsible thing to do, and legally in many states it's required.