Newbie question about roosters in a flock.

[Zackman23434]

I have read and heard from too many people give this opposite opinion. The conclusion that I have drawn from this is that all of these roosters are turning out to be agressive or unaggressive due to other factors not really having much to do with if they were handled frequently or not. IMO people are attributing how their roosters turned out (agressive or not) with whatever they did when they raised them(handled or not). But I believe it didn't have A lot to do with it. I believe this because people usually talk about this first when discussing raising roosters. And if handiling or not handiling was really that big of a factor in how their roosters turned out, then you wouldn't be getting two completely opposites words of advice. I hope you see what I'm saying. It's like someone saying use this bait for fishing because when we did we caught more fish then ever before, and someone else saying don't use that bait we did and caught nothing it doesn't work. Not a great example but you get it I hope.

I have only owned chickens for 9 weeks 11 pullets and 3 cockerels so I am no expert. I can only tell you I let 1 perch on me and treat him particularly nice, 1 I ignore, and 1 I am particularly dominant over (chase him from food occasionally, have pinned him down for nipping skin, and shoo him away from me most times. I don't treat them differently on purpose for some experiment( actually never thought about this until now) but I treat them differently as a direct result of their personalities. This also doesn't mean this treatment is not varied depending on personality changes. . One is just the nicest little guy who never bites and full of energy and seems to like to be around me, one is indifferent scared of me but has never done anything to piss me off or impress me so typically is ignored, and the other is a nipper and has to much cockiness, and doesn't learn from his mistakes quickly but still scared of me while testing limits all the time. Hopefully I am viewed as fair, rewarding, and in control. I have a naturally dominant personality but also am compassionate and sensitive. This may not be the best way to raise them but it makes sense to me. You would want to train any domesticated animal with those qualities in addition to consistency . If u bite me or over step your boundaries I will correct you nicely the first time with a warning(raising my voice) and the second time I will make sure you know who is in control and that was wrong( gonna pin you or pop u on the head with my finger, and if you are gentle and understand your place I will reward you with access to my space and any treats I may allow you to eat from my hand. If you are just there then well, your just there and I'm indifferent. Hopefully this helps because in reality the best advice ive seen is that it's a crap shoot and more then likely being dominant is key with a rooster. But I don't believe that holding him or letting him sit on you makes you beneath him in his eyes. Many pack animal matriarchs give attention and love to their subordinates. However, in the case of one of mine, until he shows me otherwise I do not trust him to sit on my Lap or eat from my hand without biting so therefore he gets pushed off. ( last few times I have allowed it he has been a totally different bird with no biting, he thinks about it but I just look down and say don't do it and he looks away.). I think people tend to go over board with things sometimes. I get that most are trying to mimic dominant rooster behavior which is what chickens respond to however, we are not chickens we are animals many times their size. If lap sitting puts me beneath a bird then I will easily remind him I am human and am beyond his pecking order.

 

[junebuggena]

Great information, thanks!

Yes, the indoors part of the chicken house is 192 square feet. (16X12) with 8 foot ceiling. We are building stairstepped roosts and nesting boxes, so more horizontal square footage. There is a penned yard that they have access to all day, adding an additional 160 square feet. When they are a little older, we will be allowing them out into the yard, free range.

I understand about the "no handling" of roosters. That makes a lot of sense.

Thanks again!

That is a small coop and run for 42 adult chickens. The average sized chicken needs about 10 sq ft of outdoor space. That means you need a yard that is a minimum of 420 sq ft. You also need at least 1 foot of roost space per bird, more is better so they can spread out in warm weather. Roost also need to be far enough apart so that birds on the lower roosts aren't getting pooed on by the birds above them.

 

[Mr Whippy]

That is a small coop and run for 42 adult chickens. The average sized chicken needs about 10 sq ft of outdoor space. That means you need a yard that is a minimum of 420 sq ft. You also need at least 1 foot of roost space per bird, more is better so they can spread out in warm weather. Roost also need to be far enough apart so that birds on the lower roosts aren't getting pooed on by the birds above them.

When they get a little older, they will free range the farm (35 acres). We're waiting until they're a few months old. Right now, we're working on training them to come to voice and getting them used to going to the house at night.

 

[junebuggena]

Do you live in an area where chickens will range all year long. Do you have big storms in the winter that might keep them from even leaving the coop for days? Avoiding overcrowding is pretty important. Once overcrowding stress starts causing behavior problems, it can be very difficult to stop. It would be far easier to rehome a few now, then it would be to have to build a whole new coop once bad behavior starts.

 

[Mr Whippy]

We're in Maryland. Our neighbor down the road has her chickens out virtually every day (except in large snow storms-maybe one every year or two). Where the house sets, it has a southern exposure and is where snow melts off first. I guess we'll have to see if they'll be overstressed. Their predicting an el nino winter--it should be a good test. If it looks like problems, we can always plow out the garden in front of the chicken house--thank God for 4wd tractors.

 

[Mr Whippy]

I have read and heard from too many people give this opposite opinion. The conclusion that I have drawn from this is that all of these roosters are turning out to be agressive or unaggressive due to other factors not really having much to do with if they were handled frequently or not. IMO people are attributing how their roosters turned out (agressive or not) with whatever they did when they raised them(handled or not). But I believe it didn't have A lot to do with it. I believe this because people usually talk about this first when discussing raising roosters. And if handiling or not handiling was really that big of a factor in how their roosters turned out, then you wouldn't be getting two completely opposites words of advice. I hope you see what I'm saying. It's like someone saying use this bait for fishing because when we did we caught more fish then ever before, and someone else saying don't use that bait we did and caught nothing it doesn't work. Not a great example but you get it I hope.

I have only owned chickens for 9 weeks 11 pullets and 3 cockerels so I am no expert. I can only tell you I let 1 perch on me and treat him particularly nice, 1 I ignore, and 1 I am particularly dominant over (chase him from food occasionally, have pinned him down for nipping skin, and shoo him away from me most times. I don't treat them differently on purpose for some experiment( actually never thought about this until now) but I treat them differently as a direct result of their personalities. This also doesn't mean this treatment is not varied depending on personality changes. . One is just the nicest little guy who never bites and full of energy and seems to like to be around me, one is indifferent scared of me but has never done anything to piss me off or impress me so typically is ignored, and the other is a nipper and has to much cockiness, and doesn't learn from his mistakes quickly but still scared of me while testing limits all the time. Hopefully I am viewed as fair, rewarding, and in control. I have a naturally dominant personality but also am compassionate and sensitive. This may not be the best way to raise them but it makes sense to me. You would want to train any domesticated animal with those qualities in addition to consistency . If u bite me or over step your boundaries I will correct you nicely the first time with a warning(raising my voice) and the second time I will make sure you know who is in control and that was wrong( gonna pin you or pop u on the head with my finger, and if you are gentle and understand your place I will reward you with access to my space and any treats I may allow you to eat from my hand. If you are just there then well, your just there and I'm indifferent. Hopefully this helps because in reality the best advice ive seen is that it's a crap shoot and more then likely being dominant is key with a rooster. But I don't believe that holding him or letting him sit on you makes you beneath him in his eyes. Many pack animal matriarchs give attention and love to their subordinates. However, in the case of one of mine, until he shows me otherwise I do not trust him to sit on my Lap or eat from my hand without biting so therefore he gets pushed off. ( last few times I have allowed it he has been a totally different bird with no biting, he thinks about it but I just look down and say don't do it and he looks away.). I think people tend to go over board with things sometimes. I get that most are trying to mimic dominant rooster behavior which is what chickens respond to however, we are not chickens we are animals many times their size. If lap sitting puts me beneath a bird then I will easily remind him I am human and am beyond his pecking order.

Really interesting perspective. I missed this earlier (still learning how this board's software works). I suspect there's a lot of truth there (gentle roosters lead to gentle treatment leads to good results, feisty roosters lead to more aggressive correction which leads to good results) Sort of an interplay of innate tendencies of the rooster leading to us modifying our treatment of them to get the desired results (our desired results, not theirs).

Like I said, I think this will be a very interesting few months ahead.

 

[Zackman23434]

Exactly, but I like the way you articulated what I was trying to say much better then I did! It was extremely late for me when I was trying to make that post and I only have an IPAD. But you are right, and again I don't believe people ended up with great or terrible roosters because they picked them up from day 1 or treated them completely different then their hens and never touched them. If you picked him up and he turned out mean then he probably would have been mean if you never picked him up once due to some other factor whether it was genetics, a particular incident, or he just doesn't like you.

Another thing I do think about though is people who seem to pitch complete dominance and fear are going down the wrong path to. If an animal is completely afraid of you then it may not come off agressive at first but, you have to remember animals can not gauge or measure their fear. If they are afraid of you then they are deathly afraid of you and one event could make that animal believe he has no choice but to attack you because you were going to try and kill him anyway. That roosters mind doesn't realize you were just coming in the pen to get the food bucket like any other day. Remember he is afraid of you and fearing for your life puts a animal in a corner. This could be why someone's normally submissive rooster just goes on the attack. Thank about a dog who is completely afraid of you and you walk into a pen with it. It goes from afraid to very dangerous.

I'm just rambling because I just find the whole how to raise a rooster debate so fascinating with so many different opinions. I almost can't wait for mine to get the hormones pumping just to watch and experience their real male personalities. And again, don't mistake an animals blind fear for being submissive.

 

[Mrs. K]

I have had chickens now for several years and over time have had several roosters. Good, bad and ughly!

The worst roosters were raised with flockmates. None of the other birds were bigger than him, and even though I do spend time each day with them, the vast majority of the time they are on their own. He rapidly outgrew the pullets, and eventually became more and more aggressive and I culled him.

All of the next roosters, were raised in a multi-generational flock. The cockerals grow up with larger birds around them 24/7. Those older birds demand respect, and the younger, smaller birds give way. They seem to grow up more slowly, that older roo serioulsy cramps their style, and they learn more manners.

In my opinion, the best way to raise a rooster, is with older birds. However, that does not always work when you are just starting out.

Mrs K