Newbie with a Serama question!

[AllFluffedUp]

Hi there!
I'm fairly new to figuring out genetics, (think approx a month worth of research) and im a bit stuck in regards to my Serama.
As far as I knew, there was no way Serama could "breed true". That was kind of the fun of them, they were like little surprise bags. Or eggs. Whichever.
Last year I received some hatching eggs that were labeled as "true white Serama" guaranteed to breed white only. I dismissed this, thinking someone a fool. However, all hatched white. Now they are only producing white offspring.
Am I the fool?!
Here i was expecting spots and colour and fabulousness and everyone is like a teeny tiny leg horn. How is this possible? I'm just learning about recessive and dominant white genes. Does this work with Serama?

Chicken tax for possibly being the genetic fool

 

[ChickNanny13]

Serama x Serama = Serama, they are a true breed/purebred
Color genetics ... Have fun

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/serama-breeding-question-on-coloring-pics.205937/

https://cluckin.net/serama-bantam-colours.html

 

[AllFluffedUp]

Serama x Serama = Serama, they are a true breed/purebred
Color genetics ... Have fun

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/serama-breeding-question-on-coloring-pics.205937/

https://cluckin.net/serama-bantam-colours.html

Thank you so much for answering!
I knew they would breed true, as in Serama x Serama. I had no idea there were lines associated with their colours. I was under the assumption that they were a mixed pot (White x White = some white, some mottled, red! Who knows with Serama usually) and although I figured some would be white, I didn't think they would have 100% white offspring. Very interesting!

 

[ChickNanny13]

You'd get mixed colors ONLY IF the lineage had a mix in it ... IMO.

"hatching eggs that were labeled as "true white Serama" guaranteed to breed white only". I understand your surprise but that breeder is reliable and trustworthy.

 

[AllFluffedUp]

You'd get mixed colors ONLY IF the lineage had a mix in it ... IMO.

"hatching eggs that were labeled as "true white Serama" guaranteed to breed white only". I understand your surprise but that breeder is reliable and trustworthy.

Thats excellent to know. Do you suppose it will have any effect genetics wise (defects etc) if I continue line breeding? Would it take quite a few generations of line breeding to achieve these birds? I dont want to mess up here, or breed birds poorly.

 

[ChickNanny13]

Are the the birds you have "related"? You'll need "new" blood by that I mean unrelated pair for breeding .... Mother/Son or Father/Daughter but not Brother/Sister. I not a breeder, so I may not be the right one to help out here. Let's see if I can get some other members reply ...

@JedJackson @WVduckchick @Kiki
Thank you in advance

 

[JedJackson]

Line breeding means crossing mothers to sons, and fathers to daughters, and then grandsons to the original mothers, granddaughters to the original father, and so on, until you have birds that are genetically close to the original father and the original mother, and then you start over by crossing these. It is a managed form of inbreeding that works because offspring are less related to one parent than they are to full siblings. Breeding siblings together will lead to problems much faster, and isn't recommended unless you do it just once to fix the qualities you want. Continued breeding of brothers and sisters will cause defects and isn't sustainable.

It sounds like the breeder has fixed the color of this line of Seramas. That is entirely possible through generations of breeding. This is how all color varieties for the different breeds were created. If you start crossing to other colors, you will start getting mixed colors again. Maybe not immediately, but it will happen over time.

If you plan to keep breeding white Seramas, ask the breeder if unrelated white chicks are available, or at least ones that aren't too closely related. Or you could breed the white birds you have to other colors, and line breed only with the chicks that turn out pure white. Hope this helps!

 

[AllFluffedUp]

Line breeding means crossing mothers to sons, and fathers to daughters, and then grandsons to the original mothers, granddaughters to the original father, and so on, until you have birds that are genetically close to the original father and the original mother, and then you start over by crossing these. It is a managed form of inbreeding that works because offspring are less related to one parent than they are to full siblings. Breeding siblings together will lead to problems much faster, and isn't recommended unless you do it just once to fix the qualities you want. Continued breeding of brothers and sisters will cause defects and isn't sustainable.

It sounds like the breeder has fixed the color of this line of Seramas. That is entirely possible through generations of breeding. This is how all color varieties for the different breeds were created. If you start crossing to other colors, you will start getting mixed colors again. Maybe not immediately, but it will happen over time.

If you plan to keep breeding white Seramas, ask the breeder if unrelated white chicks are available, or at least ones that aren't too closely related. Or you could breed the white birds you have to other colors, and line breed only with the chicks that turn out pure white. Hope this helps!

Thank you so much for the information!
I think ill bring some new ones in. I'm sure there are people out there who want or would love pure white Serama - but it's a little boring on hatch day
I had no intention of getting white Serama (I honestly thought the breeder was mistaken - she'd just gotten into chicken breeding and got hers the previous year).
So new chicks it is! I currently have a sibling pair (assumed. Hatched out of the same batch of eggs) and their daughter.

 

[JedJackson]

Thank you so much for the information!
I think ill bring some new ones in. I'm sure there are people out there who want or would love pure white Serama - but it's a little boring on hatch day
I had no intention of getting white Serama (I honestly thought the breeder was mistaken - she'd just gotten into chicken breeding and got hers the previous year).
So new chicks it is! I currently have a sibling pair (assumed. Hatched out of the same batch of eggs) and their daughter.

You're welcome!

 

[chicknponygal]

Hi there!
I'm fairly new to figuring out genetics, (think approx a month worth of research) and im a bit stuck in regards to my Serama.
As far as I knew, there was no way Serama could "breed true". That was kind of the fun of them, they were like little surprise bags. Or eggs. Whichever.
Last year I received some hatching eggs that were labeled as "true white Serama" guaranteed to breed white only. I dismissed this, thinking someone a fool. However, all hatched white. Now they are only producing white offspring.
Am I the fool?!
Here i was expecting spots and colour and fabulousness and everyone is like a teeny tiny leg horn. How is this possible? I'm just learning about recessive and dominant white genes. Does this work with Serama?

Chicken tax for possibly being the genetic fool

Serama color genetics works just like any other breed. If you breed a splash to a black, it will produce a blue and breeding a white to white will produce white. The mistaken notion that "Serama don't breed true" comes from the fact that in Malaysia, where they originated, Serama are not bred for color. All colors are mixed, the only concerns are type and attitude. The original imports to the US from the early 2000s were all sorts of different colors but in order for Serama to be accepted by the APA and to be shown in cage, they have to fit in recognized color varieties, so the American Type Serama was born. Breeders have spent years perfecting color varieties in order for them to be shown in APA shows in-cage. Currently those are black, white, blue, splash, and exchequer. American type have the same body type as Traditional Serama but Traditional Serama can come in just about any color that exists in a chicken. Different colors and patterns are bred together and you get the box of chocolate variety hatches. So look for Traditional Serama if you want the color variety. BTW, those all white Serama you have are actually a pretty hot commodity in the show world. The Serama Council of North America website has a treasure trove of info about colors and type as well as caring for Serama and a list of reputable breeders. http://www.scnaonline.org