Newbie with questions

[Mrs. K]

My 2 cents:

4-6 hens will work for a family your size. I too, would STRONGLY recommend no rooster with a 2 year old son. Roosters have ruined the whole chicken experience for MANY children. And children are who the rooster will attack first. Many inexperienced chicken people do not instantly recognize signs of aggression. A rooster and a child can be a dangerous combination, being flogged with spurs at eye level, is just not good.

Look at this as a long term project as in you are going to do this hobby for years. In those years, the chickens in your flock will change, new birds come in, old birds go out. Start out with just hens going with sex linked chicks so you know. Grow them up and get some experience, then maybe next year, have a broody hen hatch out fertilized eggs that you get from someone else, (once, I called a total stranger and asked if she had fertilized eggs and she did, and I hatched them) or get day old chicks and put under a broody, or raise up chicks and later add them to your flock. Chicken are not generally a long lived animal, somewhere around 3 years (although there are exceptions), so one should be always planning on adding birds and losing birds each year.

Now some of these chicks will be male...... you can grow them up, and chose a rooster. By now, you and your family will have quite a bit more experience, and by this time you may have had to cull birds, so you can dispatch a rooster if you need to. Some roosters are perfect gentleman, and sometimes they are a nightmare, one needs to be able to dispatch anything that will upset the dynamics of the flock.

As to the coop/run I would build a building that you can stand up in. And I would build it big enough for a 12 hens cause chicken math gets the best of us. Attach the run so that the chickens can go in and out at will. Chicken wire is for keeping chickens in, not keeping anything out. When you are thinking about the building, people tend to think of tight and warm, which is the wrong idea. You want to think wind break, and dry. Ventilation needs to be MUCH bigger than you think. AArt has an excellent article on ventilation, in his signature line.

If you keep hens, eventually you will get eggs, eventually you will or should cull something, eventually you will lose something to a predators, eventually you will eat something. But you don't need to do it all in the first 6 months.

This is a wonderful hobby, welcome.

Mrs K

 

[bbking83]

Thank you Mrs K. I'm thinking your right on skipping to rooster the first year. My original plan was mature hens only and collect eggs, then cull them in the fall and start over again next spring. My wife suggested she would like to see some eggs hatched so the rooster came into the plan. I would instantly eliminate any chicken that showed aggression, without hesitation. That's a very good idea on getting fertilized eggs from someone else, we may just go that route. Will the hen still accept and raise a chick that is not theirs, especially if its another breed? I was also wondering on free range chickens that are layers, will they normally set on the eggs all day long?

 

[pdirt]

If you want to hatch eggs, you either need a broody hen or an artificial incubator. Not all hens have the broody instinct. Broody means they have the desire to sit on a clutch of eggs. Silkies are well known for broodiness. They would also be a good breed for children. But because silkies are small, they don't have much meat on them...though in Chinese medicine, Silkie meat is considered good medicine! And if you hatch eggs, you have that 50/50 chance of raising roosters. The advantage of a broody hen (and good for kids!) is the hen will raise them all by herself...will teach them little tips how to be a chicken. You just need to provide her a seperate area from other chickens with chick feed and water and she will do the rest.

If you want predator proof fencing material, you will want the 1/2" hardware cloth. It's expensive compared to other fencing materials, but you only will have to purchase it once. Be sure you install enough that can be buried a bit into the ground to curb digging predators.

I agree, be sure both your wife and child understand these are not pets if you intend to do any sort of culling.

Even with 5 acres, don't expect to feed your flock by just free ranging. They may eat up to 50% of their daily diet by doing so, but a significant portion of their nutrition will still come from chicken feed. Chicken FEED, not chicken scratch. Scratch is not a complete nutrition.

Also, if you can find a reliable source of mature and already laying hens every spring, that would be great. But to cull them in the fall is a bit of a waste of those hens, IMO. Yes, you can eat the meat from them, but it will be tough and will need to be cooked long and slowly, like in a crockpot stew. Don't even think of trying to roast or BBQ a bird that old (older than 6 months), you'll be sorely disappointed. Plus they likely had another good year or two of laying left in them.

If you're unfamiliar with "non grocery store chicken" then you might try some first. Any chicken you raise for eggs will never remind you of any chicken you've had from them grocery store or a restaurant. ALL chicken from a grocery store is from one breed, called the Cornish Cross aka Cornish X, or CC or CX. These chickens are raised ONLY for meat and are harvested at 6-8 weeks. They grow very fast with very big breasts and the results are tender but bland meat. Any other breed is often call "heritage breeds", which includes any breed good for laying or as a "dual purpose" breed. These breeds take 6-8 MONTHS to get to a similar dressed weight as the CX and because it takes them longer, their meat is tougher but has a much richer flavor. You can butcher them younger for more tender meat, but then they have even less meat. You generally just won't get as much meat off of a heritage breed as you will with the Cornish Cross.

My point of all that is to give you heads up so you can readjust your expectations of eating your own chickens. With proper preparation, cooking methods and expectations, they can be absolutely delicious. It won't be a bargain $$ compared to grocery store chicken, but it will be richer in flavor and good to know what they ate and how well they were treated.

We raised some Dark Cornish this summer specifically for meat. We butchered at about 16 weeks. They turned out well, decent dressed weight for a non-CX breed. We've crockpotted two of them so far, one was skinless the other had skin. The skinless one was pretty tough and dry, but the skinned one was pretty tasty and juicy. We free ranged them, which adds to their toughness and reduces their weight some...next time we will reduce their amount if free range time to improve these qualities.

 

[bobbi-j]

Thank you Mrs K. I'm thinking your right on skipping to rooster the first year. My original plan was mature hens only and collect eggs, then cull them in the fall and start over again next spring.
If you get mature hens for egg laying only, I would keep them over the winter. There will be a couple of months where you will get few, if any eggs because they will be recovering from their fall molt. If you have a mult-generational flock, you are more likely to have eggs all year. Keep the mature hens at least until your next batch starts laying. Once you get a taste of eggs from free ranged chickens, you'll have a hard time going back to those tasteless, pale eggs from the store.
My wife suggested she would like to see some eggs hatched so the rooster came into the plan. I would instantly eliminate any chicken that showed aggression, without hesitation. That's a very good idea on getting fertilized eggs from someone else, we may just go that route. Will the hen still accept and raise a chick that is not theirs, especially if its another breed?
A good broody hen will accept just about anything you put under her. They have been known to sit on rocks, and will raise ducks to the best of their ability. (They get a little stressed out when their web-footed babies head for the lake, though) If you get a broody hen and want to give her day old chicks, it's best to let them sit on something - rocks, doorknobs, fake eggs - for a couple of weeks at least, then slip the babies under her at night with as little commotion as possible.
I was also wondering on free range chickens that are layers, will they normally set on the eggs all day long?
If a hen is broody, she will set on the eggs day and night until they hatch, or you replace them with day-olds, or you take her off the nest. I've never let one set long enough to give up on her own, so I don't know when that happens. If she's not broody, she'll lay her egg, then leave the nest and go about her business.

If you want to hatch eggs, you either need a broody hen or an artificial incubator. Not all hens have the broody instinct. Broody means they have the desire to sit on a clutch of eggs. Silkies are well known for broodiness. They would also be a good breed for children. But because silkies are small, they don't have much meat on them...though in Chinese medicine, Silkie meat is considered good medicine! And if you hatch eggs, you have that 50/50 chance of raising roosters. The advantage of a broody hen (and good for kids!) is the hen will raise them all by herself...will teach them little tips how to be a chicken. You just need to provide her a seperate area from other chickens with chick feed and water and she will do the rest.

If you want predator proof fencing material, you will want the 1/2" hardware cloth. It's expensive compared to other fencing materials, but you only will have to purchase it once. Be sure you install enough that can be buried a bit into the ground to curb digging predators.

I agree, be sure both your wife and child understand these are not pets if you intend to do any sort of culling.

Even with 5 acres, don't expect to feed your flock by just free ranging. They may eat up to 50% of their daily diet by doing so, but a significant portion of their nutrition will still come from chicken feed. Chicken FEED, not chicken scratch. Scratch is not a complete nutrition.

Also, if you can find a reliable source of mature and already laying hens every spring, that would be great. But to cull them in the fall is a bit of a waste of those hens, IMO. I agree. Yes, you can eat the meat from them, but it will be tough and will need to be cooked long and slowly, like in a crockpot stew. Don't even think of trying to roast or BBQ a bird that old (older than 6 months), you'll be sorely disappointed. Plus they likely had another good year or two of laying left in them.We pressure can our spent layers and the extra roosters. It tenderizes them nicely and it's so handy to have available! A quick, easy meal. It can be used in soups, stews, sandwiches and salads, or just warmed up and put over rice or potatoes. But pdirt is right - these won't be good on the grill. A slow roast might work, though. For our meat birds, we let them set in the refrigerator for 3 or 4 days before freezing. This makes them more tender as rigor mortis has passed and the muscles are more relaxed. I don't know if it would make much difference in an old stewing hen, though. The key to cooking an older hen is low and slow.

If you're unfamiliar with "non grocery store chicken" then you might try some first. Any chicken you raise for eggs will never remind you of any chicken you've had from them grocery store or a restaurant. ALL chicken from a grocery store is from one breed, called the Cornish Cross aka Cornish X, or CC or CX. These chickens are raised ONLY for meat and are harvested at 6-8 weeks. They grow very fast with very big breasts and the results are tender but bland meat. Any other breed is often call "heritage breeds", which includes any breed good for laying or as a "dual purpose" breed. These breeds take 6-8 MONTHS to get to a similar dressed weight as the CX and because it takes them longer, their meat is tougher but has a much richer flavor. You can butcher them younger for more tender meat, but then they have even less meat. You generally just won't get as much meat off of a heritage breed as you will with the Cornish Cross. Very good information.

My point of all that is to give you heads up so you can readjust your expectations of eating your own chickens. With proper preparation, cooking methods and expectations, they can be absolutely delicious. It won't be a bargain $$ compared to grocery store chicken, but it will be richer in flavor and good to know what they ate and how well they were treated.

We raised some Dark Cornish this summer specifically for meat. We butchered at about 16 weeks. They turned out well, decent dressed weight for a non-CX breed. We've crockpotted two of them so far, one was skinless the other had skin. The skinless one was pretty tough and dry, but the skinned one was pretty tasty and juicy. We free ranged them, which adds to their toughness and reduces their weight some...next time we will reduce their amount if free range time to improve these qualities.

 

[bbking83]

So a good broody hen will hatch/raise the chicks with no help needed? I was not real sure how much assistance would be required. Will the chicks survive in the coop through the winter or would they need a heat source? I am also trying to build a coop on a budget, would an old trampoline mesh work for the top/sunshade? I know someone about to trash one due to a bad frame and I'm always stocking scrap I might be able to repurpose.

 

[pdirt]

So a good broody hen will hatch/raise the chicks with no help needed? I was not real sure how much assistance would be required. Will the chicks survive in the coop through the winter or would they need a heat source? I am also trying to build a coop on a budget, would an old trampoline mesh work for the top/sunshade? I know someone about to trash one due to a bad frame and I'm always stocking scrap I might be able to repurpose.

A broody hen will do most of the work for you. SHE is the heat source, even in winter. Newbie chicken owners get worried that their chickens will freeze to death in the winter, then put in dangerous heat lamps and some of them lose everything because the heat lamps caught fire. Chickens don't need heat unless you don't have cold-tolerant breeds (most common breeds are cold tolerant) or it gets regularly below -20F. For a broody hen, you just need to provide her a space away from other chickens (we re-purposed a dog house for this last spring) and chick starter feed and water, both changed daily. The most important thing in coop design is having enough ventilation and having it in the correct locations, so the birds stay dry and don't get frostbite. It's the moisture in the air from their breathing and droppings that is the bigger problem than the cold. They can survive cold as long as you keep the coop as dry as possible.

While the trampoline mesh will work as shade for the RUN, if you can provide a waterproof cover, even the better. Your coop MUST have a real roof, one that won't leak. The coop is where they sleep at night and the run is where they spend their time when not sleeping. Look into a company that provides billboard advertising and see what they do with the old ads. Those ads are made of basically thick tarp material, which you could put over a frame to provide a waterproof covering over the run. You don't NEED a waterproof run, but it can make for a much more comfortable place for your chickens during winter and rainy seasons.

If you're near a city, look into Craigslist or Freecycle for building and roofing materials. The latter is aimed at people giving things away for free and CL also has a "for free" section.

 

[Mrs. K]

I have buff orpington hens, and they have made very good broody hens through the years for me. I follow a little different path than pdirt, I just leave them alone in the coop. I don't separate the broody from the rest of the flock, and her chicks are raised right with the flock and there is no integration issues.

I had a broody hatch out in October this year, two weeks later it was getting up to a high of 10 above with lows near 22 below. I would bring feed and water, and out they would come, I stood there watching and about the time, I could not stand there much longer from the cold, she would cluck to them and they would burrow underneath her for a warm up. so cute.

I do agree that raising them with a broody hen is much easier, and I personally have a theory that roosters raised in a flock with older birds are more gentlemanly than birds raised in a single generation.

Mrs K

 

[bobbi-j]

I do it a little differently than Mrs. K with my broodies. I separate them from the flock until the chicks are a week or two old, then integrate. The rooster usually breaks up any squabbles between the broody and other hens. My second broody was so anxious to get out and take a dust bath she left her babies in the coop while she took care of business. The rooster stood at the door and guarded the babies. That rooster, unfortunately, was taken by what I think was a coyote one night when DH accidentally locked him out of the coop. I do have his son from this spring's hatch. Hopefully he'll be as good as his daddy.

 

[bbking83]

A breeding question I was curious about (forgive me if this is a novice question). If I get a rooster and hen and allow her to hatch out chicks....will the cockerels breed the chicks upon maturation? I was not sure if this would happen and/or if this would cause any genetic issues.

 

[Percheron chick]

A breeding question I was curious about (forgive me if this is a novice question). If I get a rooster and hen and allow her to hatch out chicks....will the cockerels breed the chicks upon maturation? I was not sure if this would happen and/or if this would cause any genetic issues.

Of course he'll breed his pullets. He's a guy. If the rooster has no real shortcomings and they aren't a problem with his offspring, the general consensus is to replace the rooster every 2-3 years. If you are like most people, unless you are linebreeding purebred chickens, another rooster will grab your fancy and you will want to try something new next year.