non-cross or hybrid meat birds to breed?

[Amer]

You don't have to I guess, but for Buckeye breeders to have nice sized birds, that's what they like to start them on. Ours turned out fine without it however, but next year, we want to try and see how they will turn out. Our Buckeye chick that we let a broody hatched is already twice as wide as the other chicks, so it isn't beneficial, but it will probably make them grow faster, because of higher protein levels, like meat chickens. Sorry if I was a little vague, does that make more sense?

I never heard that about having to start Buckeyes on gamebird food, could you explain that please?

 

[lazy gardener]

My Buck Eyes started on the same unmedicated starter that the rest of the chicks started on. They have achieved a very impressive size. So far, I am pleased with the BE. The cockerels are massive. So far, the temperament of these birds is admirable also.

The flip side of a higher than normal protein feed for youngsters is that it can nudge them to sexual maturity sooner than they otherwise might reach that point. "They say" that early sexual maturity will result in smaller egg size, while increasing the over all life time egg count. Some of the "they say" folks also say that early laying predisposes a layer to reproductive issues b/c her body has not had a chance to mature. I really don't have a response to the "they say" statements, just pointing out that there are 2 or more opinions for every subject. Something to ponder. Any one got any studies to add to the ponder material???

 

[Amer]

My Buck Eyes started on the same unmedicated starter that the rest of the chicks started on. They have achieved a very impressive size. So far, I am pleased with the BE. The cockerels are massive. So far, the temperament of these birds is admirable also.

The flip side of a higher than normal protein feed for youngsters is that it can nudge them to sexual maturity sooner than they otherwise might reach that point. "They say" that early sexual maturity will result in smaller egg size, while increasing the over all life time egg count. Some of the "they say" folks also say that early laying predisposes a layer to reproductive issues b/c her body has not had a chance to mature. I really don't have a response to the "they say" statements, just pointing out that there are 2 or more opinions for every subject. Something to ponder. Any one got any studies to add to the ponder material???

I think they mean for layer crosses. Buckeyes should grow slow enough. Also, I have no proof, that is just what the master Buckeye breeders tell me.

 

[jvls1942]

for the CornishX I order the pullets.
I freerange continuously ..
I start them out of 5o/5o finely ground oats and corn. no starter mash.
by free ranging, I avoid the sickly ones and the crippled ones and the overweight ones.
I also have a couple of pluckers. I build them..
when the chickens get up to about 4 pounds we select the smallest ones first.
out of the 50 that we are raising, we butcher about 15 of the smallest ones. they will never catch up to the bigger ones anyhow.. a week later we do about 15 more, selecting the smaller ones..they will be about 4 to 5 pounds dressed out.
a week later we do it all over again. Now the small ones are difficult to find.
keeping in mind that these are all pullets.
we dress out several 7 and 8 pounders dressed out, not counting the gizzards, livers, hearts or necks..
we bag the chickens in freezer bags. we don't like the roosters because their legs are too long for the bags.. and the pullets have a thick layer of fat on them.
and you can't beat the flavor of grain fed chickens over any kind of crumbles or pellets..
we have been doing this for over 55 years.
trust me, no comparison in the flavor.

btw, it is ok to feed roosters the high calcium feed if you are going to butcher them. any adverse affect of calcium only happens over long extended periods of time
the roosters are butchered long before anything happens...
.......jiminwisc............

 

[lazy gardener]

.......jiminwisc............ Excellent management plan.

 

[rjohns39]

My Buck Eyes started on the same unmedicated starter that the rest of the chicks started on. They have achieved a very impressive size. So far, I am pleased with the BE. The cockerels are massive. So far, the temperament of these birds is admirable also.

The flip side of a higher than normal protein feed for youngsters is that it can nudge them to sexual maturity sooner than they otherwise might reach that point. "They say" that early sexual maturity will result in smaller egg size, while increasing the over all life time egg count. Some of the "they say" folks also say that early laying predisposes a layer to reproductive issues b/c her body has not had a chance to mature. I really don't have a response to the "they say" statements, just pointing out that there are 2 or more opinions for every subject. Something to ponder. Any one got any studies to add to the ponder material???

There are a number of sources that suggest slow grow out of heritage birds and their logic makes a whole lot of sense to me, but when in doubt I trust your tried and true methods. My heritage birds get starter for 3-4 weeks, then grower until they're grown. I don't rush them.

for the CornishX I order the pullets.
I freerange continuously ..
I start them out of 5o/5o finely ground oats and corn. no starter mash.
by free ranging, I avoid the sickly ones and the crippled ones and the overweight ones.
I also have a couple of pluckers. I build them..
when the chickens get up to about 4 pounds we select the smallest ones first.
out of the 50 that we are raising, we butcher about 15 of the smallest ones. they will never catch up to the bigger ones anyhow.. a week later we do about 15 more, selecting the smaller ones..they will be about 4 to 5 pounds dressed out.
a week later we do it all over again. Now the small ones are difficult to find.
keeping in mind that these are all pullets.
we dress out several 7 and 8 pounders dressed out, not counting the gizzards, livers, hearts or necks..
we bag the chickens in freezer bags. we don't like the roosters because their legs are too long for the bags.. and the pullets have a thick layer of fat on them.
and you can't beat the flavor of grain fed chickens over any kind of crumbles or pellets..
we have been doing this for over 55 years.
trust me, no comparison in the flavor.

btw, it is ok to feed roosters the high calcium feed if you are going to butcher them. any adverse affect of calcium only happens over long extended periods of time
the roosters are butchered long before anything happens...
.......jiminwisc............

Wow interesting. That's a whole lot different than how I do it, but its intriguing. You've just gone down into my next experiment list.

You do touch on something that I missed earlier. When growing out meat birds, the limiting factor isn't how many you can brood or how many you can raise. The limiting factor is how many can you process. The first time I did 40 birds I thought I was going to die. Today I can do 300 in a day, but have to take the next day off while they age. Then I do cut-ups on 85% of them the following day. And then I rest for at least a week or two. There's a lot of bayer back and body in there too.

 

[lazy gardener]

My processing limit is 3 - 4/day. I could do more, but the time of year I am processing, my time is limited by how soon the flies and yellow jackets get up in the morning.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You don't have to I guess, but for Buckeye breeders to have nice sized birds, that's what they like to start them on.

If you are raising show birds you need to feed them a regimen that gets them to peak condition at show time. A higher protein diet from hatch will help them achieve the size that show birds need. There are a few tricks in feeding them to help win that ribbon other than protein.

If you are raising meat birds you need to feed them a regimen that gets the most meat on the body at butcher time, whatever age you butcher. What feeding regimen is best will depend on what breeds or varieties you are raising and when you want to butcher.

If you are raising chicks that will be egg layers you need to tailor your feeding regimen toward that. As LG said you can get a lot of different opinions on what is best for that.

If you are raising them for pets or some combination of these you might find a different regimen best. A lot of this depends on what your actual goals are and how hard you want to work toward them. As you can see from the earlier comments some people have put a lot of thought and work into trying to figure out what works best for them. It's not just feeding regimen but what breeds, types, or crosses to raise, whether they breed them themselves or buy chicks, whether they pasture or not, just a lot of variables.

I'm a lot more casual about this than many. My main goal is that I like to play around with genetics. I eat as many females as I do males since half if what I hatch are females. Some people sell their pullets for a pretty nice price instead of eating them. We all do these things differently.

Since there are only two of us size isn’t all that important, I can get two meals for us out of a fairly small hen or pullet, the second meal is soup. A larger male just means I get leftovers for a lunch or two. I do not fry, grill, or roast them but use slower methods so I don’t have to butcher by a certain age. Mine forage for a fair amount of their food so it doesn’t cost me as much as it would if I were buying everything they eat. I still spend a lot of feed.

To me the eggs are more of a side benefit, a very nice side benefit. We get a lot more eggs than we can eat and I get enough hatching eggs to fill the incubator when I need them. The excess are given away to relatives, friends, or a food bank. I do want hens that lay a lot of eggs but the eggs don’t need to be all that large. They mainly need to hatch well.

I start my chicks off with a 20% protein Starter for four weeks or until that bag runs out to get them off to a good start. Then I switch to a Grower. That’s what they all eat from then on with oyster shell on the side for the ones laying eggs unless I have young chicks. Then they all eat Starter until the chicks switch to Grower. They get kitchen scraps and garden wastes in season, but these are inconsistent, consider them more occasional treats instead of part of their steady diet as type and volume change a lot.

There is a lot of great information in this thread and some opinions. In my opinion you have a fairly wide latitude in how you can feed them for any for these goals. Different things can work well. How much effort people want to put into studying this and putting it into practice is up to them. I’m always in favor of people studying, thinking, and trying things to see what works best for them.

 

[Amer]

If you are raising show birds you need to feed them a regimen that gets them to peak condition at show time. A higher protein diet from hatch will help them achieve the size that show birds need. There are a few tricks in feeding them to help win that ribbon other than protein.

If you are raising meat birds you need to feed them a regimen that gets the most meat on the body at butcher time, whatever age you butcher. What feeding regimen is best will depend on what breeds or varieties you are raising and when you want to butcher.

If you are raising chicks that will be egg layers you need to tailor your feeding regimen toward that. As LG said you can get a lot of different opinions on what is best for that.

If you are raising them for pets or some combination of these you might find a different regimen best. A lot of this depends on what your actual goals are and how hard you want to work toward them. As you can see from the earlier comments some people have put a lot of thought and work into trying to figure out what works best for them. It's not just feeding regimen but what breeds, types, or crosses to raise, whether they breed them themselves or buy chicks, whether they pasture or not, just a lot of variables.

I'm a lot more casual about this than many. My main goal is that I like to play around with genetics. I eat as many females as I do males since half if what I hatch are females. Some people sell their pullets for a pretty nice price instead of eating them. We all do these things differently.

Since there are only two of us size isn’t all that important, I can get two meals for us out of a fairly small hen or pullet, the second meal is soup. A larger male just means I get leftovers for a lunch or two. I do not fry, grill, or roast them but use slower methods so I don’t have to butcher by a certain age. Mine forage for a fair amount of their food so it doesn’t cost me as much as it would if I were buying everything they eat. I still spend a lot of feed.

To me the eggs are more of a side benefit, a very nice side benefit. We get a lot more eggs than we can eat and I get enough hatching eggs to fill the incubator when I need them. The excess are given away to relatives, friends, or a food bank. I do want hens that lay a lot of eggs but the eggs don’t need to be all that large. They mainly need to hatch well.

I start my chicks off with a 20% protein Starter for four weeks or until that bag runs out to get them off to a good start. Then I switch to a Grower. That’s what they all eat from then on with oyster shell on the side for the ones laying eggs unless I have young chicks. Then they all eat Starter until the chicks switch to Grower. They get kitchen scraps and garden wastes in season, but these are inconsistent, consider them more occasional treats instead of part of their steady diet as type and volume change a lot.

There is a lot of great information in this thread and some opinions. In my opinion you have a fairly wide latitude in how you can feed them for any for these goals. Different things can work well. How much effort people want to put into studying this and putting it into practice is up to them. I’m always in favor of people studying, thinking, and trying things to see what works best for them.

 

[Rye]

Over the years of raising thousands of birds I have learned a lot. The big thing I have learned is that variety really is the spice of life. There is no "Best this" or Best that" when it comes to breeds. If One breed was the best, then there wouldn't be so many out there. Also, Genetics and Lines are way more important than breeds. Good quality dual purpose genetics in any breed will certainly provide a good carcass and some eggs.

With that said, the best for me over the years have been our New Hampshires. They grow quickly which allows a butchering age that's still tender enough for frying/grilling, with a decent 5lb carcass. Not near as plump as the Cornish x, but 50/50 white to dark meat, with large thighs and legs. We like them and have a few customers for them. They're about middle of the road on feed consumption.

Our cornish x broilers are raised on pasture, butchered from 6-8 weeks. We have a lot more customers for these by a margin of 20-1 over the heritage birds. The Cornish x do well on pasture, but this time of year the cold and predators really take a toll. So we cut back the numbers and have them in greenhouses this time of year which presents a whole different battle. The Heritage birds are just fine outside and don't need supplemental heat.

We make our own feed which is around 18 - 20% for all of the poultry. For the first 2 weeks of life we add fish meal to the feed to bump it up to around 24%. The New Hampshires and leghorns get fish meal until around 6-8 weeks. Then just the normal poultry feed.

This may sound funny, but Leghorn cockerels are fast growers and have more meat on them than you'd think. We hatch hundreds of leghorns each year for new laying hens. They are smaller in size, but their bones are smaller to. We enjoy eating them and have a couple people that like to buy them.

Good luck with whatever you decide on.