Noob Questions

[jc_d1]

hey

I've noob questions...
I've heard you should rotate your rooster out every couple years for genetic diversity; however if your raising the offspring for meat I assume this to be mute? If so when does a roos virility drop? Also; when does a hens egg production decrees? Thanks!!

 

[Jetblack2004]

If you are raising birds for meat then keeping the same cockerel is fine. The reason people replace their cockerel every two years is because they keep some of his daughters when they hatch chicks. Breeding a cockerel with his daughters is inbreeding and best not done for health reasons.

Each year the fertility of a cockerel decreses. I wouldn't keep a cockerel older than 3-4 years. By then his fertility will have dropped considerably. It also depends on the breed.

Same as the cockerels losing fetility, the egg production will decrease each year. Point of lay is the peak age of egg laying for a hen. I would say for a hybrid by two years of age the egg production will have dropped massively. For a pure bred hen, maybe 3 or 4 years of age. Again, this depends on the breed. And, of course, the hen.

I hope this helps you!

-Jet

 

[jc_d1]

Thanks!

 

[lazy gardener]

However, if you maintain a flock, and eat the culls and the excess cockerels, It would be wise to occasionally replace the roo. If you want a flock that will continue to produce nice beefy cockerels for the table, start with breeds that are known for their size, and save the biggest and best for your breeders every year.

I'm in the process of working a new boy into my flock. My avatar roo will be 4 this spring. I'm hoping he will share flock duties with a nice beefy BE. So far, so good with ongoing efforts to introduce Goliath to flock duties. Jack is doing admirably in schooling the young fellow in proper dating ettiquette. Translated to rooster speak: "You make my girls holler, and I'm gonna whip your butt."

 

[aart]

Breeding a cockerel with his daughters is inbreeding and best not done for health reasons.

Not true.
It's typical to breed vertically(parent to offspring),
tho horizontal breeding(siblings) is much more likely to cause problems.

Agrees that new cockbird blood is good to do, every few years in general.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Genetic diversity is largely overrated. Improvements to livestock all through history has been done by narrowing the gene pool to promote the traits we desire. An exceptional animal is mated to offspring and offspring of that mating and so on until it can no longer produce or undesired traits show up. Close breeding is done to maintain the good qualities and attempt to improve on them. Just as genes line up to display the attributes we want they can also line up and start throwing things we don't. The key word there is "can" which means not always. In the very long run of a closed flock it will eventually suffer lack of vigor. How long a period of time that is depends on the breeding program. There are multi decades old closed flocks without issues.

When using different lines or breeds or even hybrid birds the genetic diversity is staggering. Crossing of lines or varieties or breeds is an F1 generation. Breeding those offspring onto selves is F2. F3, F4, F5 are not uncommon as each generation is being selected for improved traits of an original line then back crossed to original parent or earlier F generation to gain back or strengthen another trait. This is how new breeds or new varieties or reintroduction of a breed and or variety is done. Starting with huge genetic diversity and narrowing it down to desired effect.

 

[Jetblack2004]

Not true.
It's typical to breed vertically(parent to offspring),
tho horizontal breeding(siblings) is much more likely to cause problems

Agrees that new cockbird blood is good to do, every few years in general.

If you kept a cockerel with his offspring and didn't replace him, eventually the flock would be completely inbred. This can cause a lot of problems, including deformed chicks, fertility issues, and the chicks being more prone to diseases.

This is what I've heard.

-Jet

 

[Egghead_Jr]

If you kept a cockerel with his offspring and didn't replace him, eventually the flock would be completely inbred. This can cause a lot of problems, including deformed chicks, fertility issues, and the chicks being more prone to diseases.

This is what I've heard.

-Jet

You're right, lack of vigor which equates to fertility and hatchability issues will occur eventually in a closed flock. But it has to be put in perspective by looking at what gene pool you started with. On one end of the spectrum you could start a flock from breeder eggs taken from one breeding pen of a long established line. On the other end of spectrum you've people breeding backyard flocks that have everything in it from EE's to Orpingtons. That is a huge difference of starting gene pool size. On the shallow end of the pool without careful line breeding plan bad traits and eventual loss of vigor will occur in relative short order. In the deep end of the pool I don't believe a person would see loss of vigor in what's left of lifespan even if they tried to inbreed.

 

[lazy gardener]

You're right, lack of vigor which equates to fertility and hatchability issues will occur eventually in a closed flock. But it has to be put in perspective by looking at what gene pool you started with. On one end of the spectrum you could start a flock from breeder eggs taken from one breeding pen of a long established line. On the other end of spectrum you've people breeding backyard flocks that have everything in it from EE's to Orpingtons. That is a huge difference of starting gene pool size. On the shallow end of the pool without careful line breeding plan bad traits and eventual loss of vigor will occur in relative short order. In the deep end of the pool I don't believe a person would see loss of vigor in what's left of lifespan even if they tried to inbreed.

I'm playing in the deep end of the pool. I brought in a lot of different breeds this spring. Short term, most of these breeds when crossed with my 2 males will give me black and red sex links with pea or walnut combs, and 25 - 50% green/blue eggs. Long term, I plan to breed birds with varied color patterns, small combs, that will produce a colorful egg basket. Given that I am at the end of the line for USPS for just about any hatchery, and the uncertainty of the ongoing option for interstate shipping, I have long term plan for maintaining a varied gene pool for many years to come.